I don't get it. I thought Gove was pro faith schools, and getting parents to run them?

[PurplyBlue]

Has he changed his mind?

If you're thinking of the Brmingham schools, these are supposed to be non-faith schools not free schools or faith academies.

He's a twat and this attempt to sort out the problems in these schools is about the only thing he's done that I agree with.

I just don't get why he is suddenly so jumpy about the idea of religion taking hold of a state school's ideology, when he is clearly pro-faith schools and free schools - (ie LAs washing their hands of any responsibility).

It surely leaves the way clear for situations like this to develop time and time again?

Yes, he is a twat.

Islam and extremism are not synonyms.

The problem was not with a school having a religious slant. It was with the (alleged) fostering of extremism and practices which contravene other legislation.

I think it is more to do with failing the children in terms of safeguarding and producing a culture of fear amongst staff. Although I haven't read much into it, so I am willing to be corrected on that.

I think you are right, there is potential for this to happen again. The new Ofsted system allows for "good" school (based on previous inspection or data) to go many years between inspections. As it was the inspections that picked up these problems rather than the DFE it could have gone on longer.

I should point out it potential to happen with any group of people who share a world view- not specific faiths. After all, you can set up a free school with a certain view point, not necessarily religious.

What it does demonstrate is that freeing schools from local authority control obviously has its dangers, and that his department blatantly hasn't been vetting academies and free schools and their sponsors properly.

As was mentioned on the radio this morning, they had rather a problem blocking christian creationist groups setting up academies and free schools
its not just Islam that has nutters

have you SEEN what the Exclusive Brethren teach their kids .....

In a multi-faith / non-faith society, it's simply not feasible to have faith schools funded by the state.

Especially when the way has been opened for just about anyone with a special interest to start their own school, funded by the public.

I realise that the Birmingham schools aren't faith schools, btw, but would the situation be any better if they were?

He wants faith schools as long as their Christian - the Catholic faith for example have a long history of running some simply delightful schools .

That's probably not very clear, my point is that faith schools were always unfair and problematic, but that Gove has spectacularly failed to recognise that, and has laid the way clear for the situation to become even worse with free schools.

But that's just one aspect of his arsery, of course.

They're not their!

Did Gove run the inspections?

I just don't get why he is suddenly so jumpy about the idea of religion taking hold of a state school's ideology, when he is clearly pro-faith schools and free schools

No he is pro faith schools when they are the 'right' faith

No schools should promote any faith/religion.

All schools should just be schools. Not catholic/cofE/Jewish etc.

Schools should be places of learning about life and science, places where children can question and explore any/all religious beliefs. None should be touted as right or wrong.

Gove promote free schools and academies. If non faith Nd non academy schools like those in Birmingham are getting it so wrong can you imagine what a bloody state those less monitored are in.

thebody - exactly. I'm just baffled that anyone ever thought it would be a good idea to leave schools to their own devices and hope for the best.

And faith schools do seem a very outdated concept now, it's just not practical for the state to furnish everyone in every area with a faith school of their choice.

The schools involved were not faith schools, nor were they all academies/free schools. Some LA-maintained schools were involved as well.

The issue here is that non-faith schools have apparently started acting as Islamic schools pushing an extreme form of that faith.

He wants faith schools as long as their Christian

Not true. He has allowed free schools in several faiths.

The issue here is that non-faith schools have apparently started acting as Islamic schools pushing an extreme form of that faith.

I realise that these were not faith schools, but does that make the core issue any different?

What is to stop state-funded Islamic free schools from opening up, and going in this direction too?

Or other faith schools / special interest schools essentially operating their own agenda when it comes to indoctrination?

I am assuming that the increased freedom to move away from core curriculum etc will make it easier for schools to pursue their own agendas.

Christian Evangelists for example?

These schools were not faith schools.

These schools were not Free Schools.

These schools were not Academies.

The Left wants to destroy faith schools, Free Schools and Academies alike and so is using this row in its efforts to do so (whilst shouting 'Islamophobe' at anyone that objects).

But this row illustrates perfectly the fact that the pursuit of one religion over others within a school creates problems that should have no place in a school. Children should be there to learn, not be embroiled in rows about religion.

The fact that free schools, faith schools, and academies have even greater freedoms in this direction is surely pertinent?

Actually, I think 4 out of 5 WERE academies weren't they? Which is an issue because they don't have to teach the Nat Curr or follow lots of other requirements that LEA schools do.

But to answer your question Purply - the DfE seems to want schools doing their own thing, parents involved and lots of faith input - but only if it's the RIGHT sort of thing, the RIGHT sort of parents and the RIGHT sort of faith ;-)

I suspect that if OFSTED visited a fundermentalist christian school that they would find it equally intolerant,

Actually I think if we are going to have faith schools I would rather that we had some state control over them to prevent extremism. On the face of it muslims having faith schools is no different to catholics having faith schools. However the catholic church and the church of england both have control over their faith schools. Schools are openly faith schools and there are non faith schools available to people who

The problem with Park View was that a community school was turned effectively into a faith school unofficially.

Yes, many of the worst schools were academies - particularly the Park View chain. Three of their schools come out very badly indeed.

Gove has promoted 'freedom' for schools, freedom from local accountability, freedom to be ordered around by Gove - and now we can see that it was a very bad idea. Gove can't micromanage every school from Westminster, much as he'd like to, so problems are not identified and resolved.

Mind you, Birmingham LEA may not have been much better at handling this, the council is shocking. Social services have been failing desperately for years, leading to the deaths of several children - yet the council chief exec is the highest-paid in the country. (Unless someone has overtaken him in the last couple of months.)

However the catholic church and the church of england both have control over their faith schools.

I see your point, but I'm also not sure that this is necessarily always a good thing? It's still a religious agenda being pursued in a state school - especially odd when there are children there whose parents are not of that religion. (This is often through lack of choice, especially where schools are overcrowded.)

I do agree though that I'd rather have faith schools overseen by the state than not.