To think they should let the debt go?

[falulahthecat]

I had a job at a uni in the finance dept. which started off as me coming in for 20 hours a week as an intern/dogsbody - then when a lady left on the purchase eldger because I was finding it all so easy they let her train me up for a couple of days and gave me her job. 5 months later my contract was due to end, I had a weeks holiday, then 10 days then my contract was to be renewed.
Being my first 'proper' job I'd stupidly not insisted on written confirmation, however everyone was so confident I'd be staying I'd even paid my £5 for the Christmas meal (2 months later!).

I come back off holiday and get "Oh, er we didn't clear it with HR and as it's the recession (it was 2010) we're not renewing any contracts that expire. You might be able to reapply but we're changing it to a position for someone with payroll experience blah blah".

So I had 10 days to find a job, which didn't happen. (In fact 2 years of unemployment and depression/anxiety followed, hurrah).

THEN they paid me the next months pay - and I went to the job centre next day to sign on and said the last time I was paid was yesterday and so my job seekers was delayed.

By the time I found out it wasn't mine (had stupidly assumed they wouldn't have made a mistake like that and it was either my months 'notice' or I'd been paid in arrears as my payment method changed after the first month) some was gone and I needed the rest for rent etc. until my jobseekers kicked in for rent.

2 years later they start chasing it up, using debt collectors etc. There's nothing in my contract saying it would become civil debt, and so the use of debt collectors is I believe, illegal. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I got it from the CAB website I think).

I agreed to pay £5/£10 a month from my jobseekers allowance (I'm pretty sure even banks aren't supposed to use that for interest!) but after 7 months decided it was too much as unlike a lot of people we were getting only £400 between 2 of us and no housing benefit etc. - basically my family was having to pay our rent, it was a horrible time!

2 years later and a debt collection turns up at my parents address AGAIN.

I could just ignore it, but if they ring my Mum or turn up she won't deal well and I'll feel so very guilty.

AIBU to think that, in these partcular circumstances, they were dicks and should just let it go? :/ Just to say I've only just been able to find another permanent job (instead of temp/seasonal) after all this time, and have overdrafts etc. that need paying off, and we're meant to be saving anyways... ARGH!

God half of what I wrote was pure gibberish then, sorry, v tired.

In short - yes yabu.

Well I do have sympathy for you, it sounds like you had a really rough time.

But you do sound like you think you're owed a living due to this, and that the law doesn't apply because you had a hard time. But believing you can take money that doesnt belong to you as you feel you've been badly done to, that's not right, or a very healthy state of mind to be in.

I can see the job not happening was really awful for you, but these things happen, and you learnt that you cannot trust in anything except a written contract and a done deal. That's a good thing to learn, though an incredibly painful way to learn it.

But based on what you've written, no one was nasty to you, and no one was responsible for the situation. Your colleagues also seemed sorry that happened to you. So it's kind of surprising that you seem to think the company owe you in some way, whereas you actually owe them.

It would be a positive thing if you can take out of this that you need to deal with things properly, as they will come back to bite you. But from this thread, I don't think you will, which is a shame.

People have said a lot about the moral aspect of this so I'll give that a miss.

As a couple of PP have said you need to deal with this on a practical level to avoid screwing your credit rating even further.

You are indeed entitled to feel however you like it sounds like you have been through a lot. However, rather than avoiding paying the money back I would think that contacting them and working out a slow repayment might make you feel more relaxed. Having this uncertainty hanging over you will just cause more stress. I do not know the legalities of this but I would be nervous of doing nothing and it effecting your credit rating I don't know if this type of debt might result in a County Court Judgement - infor HERE. You need to establish whether this debt will effect your chances of getting a MORTGAGE.

I don't know what the actual legal situation is but I think you should find out. CAB should be able to help or you might be able to use the free half hour initial consultation that some (?) solicitors offer.

I also think you need to work out whether you could take action against your former employers. It been a long while?? (Too long?) Once you know the facts you can either deal with it or chalk it up to experience.

Op you do know that you are in complete control of at least one thing here, the effect on your mum? The only way this will affect her at all is if you choose not to contact them and give them your up to date details. You have the power to make sure they leave your mum alone.
unless I have misunderstood and you have given them your current address and they are still writing to you at your mums?

When I gibbered, I largely meant what MiscellaneousAssortment said up there ^^

You can feel how you like as He'sGot says, it's not unreasonable to feel something. It isn't unreasonable to wish a debt away though it would be unreasonable to expect them to do away with it- whether it be their fault or yours that it incurred, it's still their money and they want it back.

It will definitely affect you getting a mortgage and the longer you wait to act and they have to chase, the worse it will be for that. Best thing is to go to the CAB and talk to them about the best way to offer a repayment plan up- £5 a month as someone suggested, or something. It's shit, yes, but you don't want anything putting mortgage lenders off.

When you decided the £5 a month from before was too much, did you contact them to sort out something or just refuse to pay and ignore them?

A verbal contract means fuck all if it's not witnessed and cannot be proven, it has to be proven by way of witnessing or referencing or it's nothing at all. If you still had those emails, if they mentioned the contract and you being let down there, then you may have stood a chance with it - maybe even the card would have helped but depends what was written.

If you talk to the CAB they may be able to help you accumulate things, put them in order so that you can pay it back. They are your best port of call right now.

I can see why you're angry about this but I think that you need to accept that you're going to have to repay the money. Universities are huge organisations who employ solicitors. In my experience they can get pretty nasty if people or organisations owe them money.

Unless you have really good evidence (e.g. something in writing) I doubt that you can prove that there was a "verbal" contract so it isn't worth spending time or energy on it.

OP the problem with your situation is that you cannot unilaterally decide to stop paying back a debt without speaking to the creditor. As you have discovered.

Communication is the key and you have to be tenacious and prioritise spending the time sorting it out instead of turning a blind.

You sound very bitter about the whole experience. You should channel the time and energy you have been expending here to sort things out once and for all via the CAB as others have advised.

The thing is you will probably no longer be dealing with the uni here - most likely the debt has been "sold" to a company who makes money from reclaiming more for you than they paid for the debt.

OP, you gave 200 back straight away and paid some months at 5-10. Is the amount actually outstanding closer to 750 then? Have they applied interest to it?

You've got 2 choices:

1. agree to pay it back. 10 per week over a year and a half would clear it. You'd be able to forget about it by next Christmas. I'm not sure if you could come to that arrangement yourself or whether a third party may need to be involved (CAB?).

2. You can decide you're in the right. You can fight this and possibly win. It will take time and effort, but you may save yourself 750. You may lose and have costs added.

I think you need to think about what you can handle as it sounds as if you've had a very tough two years. But you need to do something soon. "Hoping", "thinking", "wanting" will get you nowhere. Whatever way you decide you need to take control of the situation.

You need to go down to the CAB office and get some proper advice.

You need to worry about the impact on your credit rating for the future.

Some of the things you are saying seem just wrong -

I was always told that verbal agreements are worth the paper they are written on - ie fuck all.

Both DH and I have been in the position of being told that contract extensions were coming and then not happening. It's shit it really is - however I've never been told or read anything that said I had the right to sue them over this.

I'm also surprised by the idea that it has to be in the contract that any mistaken over payments can't be civil debt or the idea that they wouldn’t be pursued.

However I am not a leagl expert in this area - so CAB office should have people there you can advice what the actual legal position is.

Like BeCool I suspect that the debt has been sold on - so you need to get to the bottom of who you should be paying and what charges and interest is being levied – so you can get them of your back and get this debt cleared eventually.

I do see that you feel you wer treated unfairly - but I don't think you have the correct information about the legal position - and you should take some advice before it goes further and gets worse.

Oh also OP, I have known this happen - people being overpaid in their final pay packet. I have never known it to be retrieved via debt collectors. It has always almost been written off. So on that basis YANBU for hoping they would.

However if they have made it clear that they want the money back, and IF they are legally entitled to do so, YABU to hope for anything otherwise.

I think there are three situations going on

1. You thought you were going to get a permanent job at the University, had been told it was likely, but then didn't happen.

2. You then struggled with personal and work issues and didn't work for a number of years.

3. You took a thousand pounds you knew you weren't entitled to and said nothing.

As far as I can see 1) and 2) are irrelevant. The only thing is relevant is that you knowingly kept money that wasn't yours. Sad as the things that happened to you were, they don't absolve you from paying back the money and it isn't like anyone is expecting you to write a check there and then for the whole amount.

OP thinking purely pragmatically, this issue over the money has now been in your life for 4 years. Don't you want to move on and stop letting it cause you stress?

You can change the way you think about it - perhaps as a loan when you really needed it. But now you are working I would pay it back ASAP, try to minimize any further damage to my credit rating, and get to that blessed day when it is all paid and you can move on properly.

Or cling to the "it's not right" ethos if you want - but really what are you aiming to achieve with this? clearly you know you owe the money.

Do you want to deal with this and move on with your life, or cling to it and keep it gnawing away at you for another 4 years, or more?

Are they allowed to reclassify your debt as something it isn't?

Just pay what you owe and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Yes fifi there is a strong thread of 'woe is me' in the original post and that somehow she is entitled to the money in recompense for the crumby hand life has dealt her.

Leaving aside the debt (which the OP has a legal and I would argue moral obligation to pay ragardless of the circumstances) the bald facts are that the op had a fixed term contract that she thought was going to be turned into a permanent one or that she would be issued with another temporary contract but it wasn't.

If the possibility of the job becoming permanent/extension hadn't been floated, then she would have been in exactly the same position, let go at the end of her initial temporary contract.

ComposHat - but with 3+ months to find another job, whilst in employment. When you're employed people want to employ you. When you're unemployed - they don't. It's not so bad now but 4 years ago it was extremely difficult. And actually, you've clearly not read all posts, so take your nastiness elsewhere please. I quite clearly stated I was not better off with their mistake, I was worse off, and I quite clearly stated I WAS in contact with them at the time about it. I even applied to other jobs at the university so it could be taken from my paypacket! I sincerely hope that if you ever suffer with the depression of over THREE THOUSAND rejected job applications no one says you're being a bit 'woe is me'. Actually... maybe I do.

fifi669 - OH - 'Just pay what I owe' I hadn't thought of that. I'll just go an get a grand out of my overdrawn bank account and give it to them.

Thanks for the patronising, hectoring, insulting, obvious and intelligence insulting posts everyone.

I's made me feel much better about a horrible time in my life and having to LITERALLY pay for someone else's mistake TWICE OVER.

Off to flouncers corner for me.

I can see why you think you got rotten treatment and were misled about the job situation. But they overpaid you in error and they are now recovering the money. I was overpaid a month's salary once and of course I wouldn't have minded keeping it but I didn't. You simply can't unless you want hassle.

Huh? Well what did you want?

People pointed out the risks of not engaging with the debt recovery process, they highlighted that the company were entitled to ask for their money back despite it being a mistake and some people gently suggested that having had a difficult time, you might want to take the path of least resistance rather than the "morally superior" direction.

Did you just want people to say "awwww there there, Nasty evil finance department?"

If you want sympathy and stroking, then I'd repost in a different section and make that the focus of your post.

Its not what you asked for, and by posting in the way you did, you arent going to get it this way!

Posing the question around you not wanting to pay back money you do owe, and by blaming your misfortunes on an institution which didn't do anything wrong, you got people backs up.

But that doesn't mean that you haven't had a rubbish time and really, if you posted about that, without the other stuff, I'm sure you'd find kindness and support on here.