to think a new law to ban plastic bags is absurd given how much other packaging there is?

[bunchoffives]

When I look in my recycling bin - which is huge - it's full of cardboard sleeves, plastic trays, plastic shrink wrap, plastic bottles, some glass, boxes that had plastic bags in them of sugar, boxes with individually wrapped cakes stock cubes etc etc etc.

In other words I pay council tax every month to take away the packaging food manufacturers have already charged me for (in the cost of the food) to help sell me their products.

AIBU to ask why doesn't Shiny Dave pass a law getting manufacturers and supermarkets to reduce packaging before fussing about the comparatively lesser issue of plastic bags?

You can still get them viva, you'll just have to pay for them.

Many European countries have charged for bags for years. I don't understand all the fuss! Packaging is ludicrous on some products though...

I do agree that (for me anyway) carrier bags are only a minor issue

90% of the time I use bags for life. If I do an online shop I return bags.

On the odd occasion I do get a bag it gets used again and again and again. Never thrown away.

I agree Amicissimma

As much loose fruit and veg as I can find, or I'll use the paper mushroom bags at a push. Never those thin small plastic bags. Also, all fruit and veg go in one shopping bag.

I don't think using plastic bags as bin liners is a good idea. I don't even buy black bags now. I buy fully biodegradable bin bags. At least they will compost down in the landfill. Plastic just degrades - as in breaks down into tiny pieces but not fully biodegrade.

Recycling bugs:

1. Tetrapaks. I use a lot (fake milk) and I can't put them out with the rest of my recycling. However I can take them separately down to the tip, which I do but it's an arse.

1. Types of plastic. I get that the plastic you can heat up isn't suitable for recycling but why not other types along with the milk bottles etc...

1. Metal. I can recycle tins via the rubbish collection, but not waste tin foil etc.. So again like the tetrapaks, I load up the car and head for tip where I can recycle.

YABU
A bag is something you can use multiple times very easily but most people don't bother. Its a bit harder to reuse other packaging and there will always need to be other packaging. Manufacturers should reduce of as much as possible, but its a separate issue.

As a tight frugal male shopper, I begrudge paying 5p to take my already expensive shopping home. So if I go to M&S or Lidl I know that I will either have to take my own bag, or BUY LESS!

Supermarkets will cotton on when their profits start to drop... what do I mean? Well if I just pop to the local Tesco (other supermarkets are available) and I forgot bags or I was only planning to buy a pint of milk or loaf of bread, how many times have I walked out with hundreds of other "bargains"... You know the ones BOGOF etc.

Well next time I pop in for bread, without bringing a bag, will I be tempted to buy the other stuff, that I didn't really need or want?

You wait and see, products will be labelled as buy one and get a FREE bag! So how good has that been for the planet?

Seriously this is NOT about saving the planet FFS!

It is a cheap illusionists trick, get the people to focus on the small things, so we can continue to doing all the other big things...

How many time have I read "it's a start" in this thread.

Well start by addressing the BIG issues not the small ones.
You know the saying... penny wise pound foolish!

I've not used supermarket plastic bags for years. Always take my own or carry in my hands if ad hoc purchase.

I do think it's a good start and one that should have been implemented years ago when council recycling was brought in.

I can see the frustration with packaging but there are two drawbacks. Firstly how can products travel around and get to market without packaging to keep them serviceable. How do you legislate regarding what isn't acceptable. Secondly the majority of highly packaged products come from the States or Far East - how can our government legislate about how they are packaged?

@ Butkin... as written "Secondly the majority of highly packaged products come from the States or Far East - how can our government legislate about how they are packaged?"

So the plastic bags cause more pollution/climate change than flying/shipping products from overseas?

The eye is not on the ball - It is NOT a start - It is not about saving the planet.

Viewbyadad, how is the reduction in the number of plastic bags being thrown away - which is the actual proven result of this policy in many places, including the UK - anything but a good thing?

look, we've had to pay for bags in Wales for ages. get over it.

Seriously I once stood behind a woman in TKMAX who was so incensed that she had to pay 5p for a bag that she threw all her stuff on the counter and stormed off. What a twat.

You pretty quickly get used to carrying your own bag with you.

I hardly ever see other packaging than those flimsy plastc bag high up in trees or blowing like tumble weed over the motorway...

I think 5p is too cheap. 20 would be more appropriate imo.

Viewby - do you think we live in Utopia where we don't need food/products from other countries? Of course we will continue to import goods and I can't see how we can tell a Sony, Apple or whoever how they can package their goods. What makes one style of packaging any more viable than others. Often vacuum packing fruit and veg in sterile conditions can make it last longer.

Come on then, you're PM for the day, where would start to make changes in the real world?

Joules, is it such a big deal for you to put someone's shopping into the bag they provide? If you work in retail you are providing a service and it's good customer relations to put the purchased item into the bag they provide, regardless of whether you think they are 'scruffy' or not.

MelanieCheeks, If the legislation was truly about this, then there should be an outright ban, not a levy of charging?

Will 5p make a difference to some people, yes. Will it stop carrier bags going to landfill, no. Will it reduce climate change, no. How much more energy and pollution will be required to make those lovely heavy duty, longer lasting bags that we will all now need? How many people will have to buy black refuse bags to throw their rubbish out? The list goes on...

My point was not really anything to do with the carrier bags...

It's how the government chooses to show case latest legislation and keep us focussed on stuff that is far less important than the real important stuff. "Queen's speech: the humble plastic bag takes the spotlight"

It has clearly had the desired effect with this thread, has it not?

We could discuss the fracking that was also in the Queen's speech. How you have no rights to stop this happening under your own home? "Shale gas industry welcomes move to end requirement to notify homeowners of drilling under their properties"

Or perhaps that HMRC will soon be able to dip into your bank account and take everything (it THINKS you owe them) but the very last £1000, oh and if you can PROVE them wrong, they will give you the money back!

Butkin, It was never about the bags or importing products.

It is the analogy I used as described in my post above.

As for your challenge of PM for the day... do you really believe he has any power in the world, let alone the UK?

I didn't think they were being banned only they will cost 5p minimum. It's an inconvenience but a good idea. I know what you mean about packaging. Especially with the internet ordering. Our recycling bin is always full and it's quite big.

As others have said we've been doing this for years in Wales. It has reduced the stupid use of a free bag, to carry a newspaper is a good example. It includes all bags in Wales so when DP bought my longed for and v expensive handbag for my big birthday he had to pay the 5p for the lavish carrier but that carrier will never see the landfill.

I particularly enjoy watching people leaving the supermarket with 14 items they wouldn't stump up for a bag to carry in. Pack of butter in their back pocket, leeks in shirt pocket and bacon under their hat.

Living in a rural area, with awful recycling, the council taking plastic bottles, cardboard and plastic trays and yoghurt pots would make a far far bigger difference to our contribution to landfill.

I can get rid of plastic bottles easily enough in a local car park, but loads of small bits of card and plastic packaging mean queueing at the tip.

It's an incentive to reuse bags.

An incentive which has been tried and tested with positive results in other places. I'm refraining from commenting on "you English", but I may need to sit on my hands in a minute.

I totally agree that there is too much surplus packaging on goods, but that's a separate matter. As is fracking.

YABU - not using plastic bags is a good thing. Using less packaging would also be a good thing. Why refuse to do one good thing because manufacturers aren't required to do a different good thing? One good thing is better than none.
This is the pathetic excuse used by people who insist on driving everywhere regardless of climate change because "flying is worse".

Very unreasonable. Its one less thing so is worth it.

Aren't most plastic bags in the uk biodegradable anyway? I could be wrong in that.

You are very wrong about that. There is no such thing as a biodegradable plastic - all it does it break down into smaller bits and spread its pollution over a wider area, through more of the food chain.

This is a law essentially about litter. Yes, the supermarkets need to reduce their packaging, but the main litter problem on land and at sea is twofold - plastic bags, and plastic bottles (and their attachments). Ireland has seen a staggering reduction in the amount of plastic bag litter since their passed their law.

I agree it will do very little to combat the massive problem of plastic in the environment and entering the food chain at a base level.

However YABU. The world is too full of people saying "It's not up to me to do anything which slightly inconveniences me."

Yabu about the bags, they have to go to.

But you are so right about the overuse of packaging. Big businesses get away with so much and the government fails to tackle them.

I visited Germany 25 years ago and the shops there already had a ban on using plastic bags. You were expected to bring your own bags to shops, and if you didn't you had to leave the shop clutching your purchases in your arms.
This country is useless and its citizens aren't prepared to do anything for the sake of the environment. YABVU.

I wouldn't mind so much if the chargeable bags were at least plain - I really don't see why I should pay for their adverts

Anyway, if they're so keen to protect the environment, those toxic printing inks are hardly helping, are they??