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Original poster

To think that misogyny is alive and well in 2014

54 replies

zeezeek · 30/05/2014 21:27

Ok, back at work in the UK, and my very experienced female colleague has missed out on a Chair to a male, less experienced colleague. The departmental money has gone to the usual old boys and I'm stuck with an office share with another female colleague whilst men who are not as senior as me are given their own offices. And, you know the worst thing, none of this even occurred to me as being wrong until someone (a female friend) pointed it out. WTF?

OP posts:
pommedeterre · 30/05/2014 21:30

Yanbu

We live in a patriarchy.

GenerationX2 · 30/05/2014 21:31

Yes it sure is alive - I see it every day at my work place

riverboat1 · 30/05/2014 21:36

YANBU.

I work in professional training. I have regularly had male clients say how nice it is to have trainers from our company come to their office, as they are always pretty women.

Ever heard of the Bechdel Test in films? Look it up, and bear it in mind for the next few films you watch. I read about this test 6 months ago, and have been utterly depressed about the state of cinema ever since.

FidelineandFumblin · 30/05/2014 21:53

Depressing. Are you gong to raise it?

Original poster
zeezeek · 31/05/2014 09:30

Yes, I am going to raise it. A female colleague and I worked out that we bring in 5 times more money in grants than some of the favoured junior male colleagues and have more publications, not to mention international reputations in our field. Yet we are still treated like the token little women and are patronised and side-lined from any major decisions.

What really pisses me off is that a female friend of mine, along with 2 male colleagues, one of whom used to be her post-doc, set up a research centre within a top University here in the UK (can't say which one, obviously!). They were quickly made Professors and get Directors posts within that centre, whilst she didn't and was sidelined. If it wasn't for her research that centre would never have opened.

Any advice welcome!!!

No, I've never heard of the Bechdel Test in films....what is it? (Ok, I know, I could Google it, sorry).

OP posts:
weatherall · 31/05/2014 09:34

I avoided an academic career because together with law and medicine is particularly hard for women to succeed in.

Apparently entrepreneurship is the best avenue for women to get ahead.

Changes in attitudes will take generations to achieve.

IMO sex discrimination in employment should be criminalised,

Lottapianos · 31/05/2014 09:40

YANBY. Misogyny is absolutely everywhere. Its thoroughly depressing. We need to keep challenging it, exhausting though that is. We have a very long way to go before sexism is taken as seriously as racism

Thenapoleonofcrime · 31/05/2014 09:41

I'm afraid that the academic world is still extremely misogynistic and the example you give is absolutely typical. Women still having to be twice (if not more) as good as the men, and the implication there's something not quite right about you, whereas men who don't seem to have the paper or other qualifications just sail up (not saying all the men are underqualified, I'm saying that there are notable disparities about border-line cases).

Very frustrating.

I think the only thing that will change it is when academic women start suing their institutions for sex discrimination/unfair dismissal. I have a friend who was part of a huge grant, she wasn't promoted off the back of it but a man in the department was- same grant, same amount. She really could have sued them, but being junior, being not wealthy, not wanting to scupper career by pursing this course, she continues to work very hard to try to do even better next time.

I don't have the answer, but I feel your pain.

Thenapoleonofcrime · 31/05/2014 09:44

Initiatives like Athena Swan then make you feel worse, because apparently the institution is gender-neutral and promoting women because they have an award. Meanwhile, it's business as usual in the old boy's club.

Original poster
zeezeek · 01/06/2014 16:15

That's absolutely true. It looks good on the recruitment pages, but in reality means nothing.

OP posts:
ballsballsballs · 01/06/2014 16:32

YANBU at all.

nobodysbabynow · 01/06/2014 17:03

Beschdel: is there more than one woman (with a name, so receptionists etc are excluded). If so, do the women talk to each other? If they do, is the conversation about something other than men?

The vast majority of mainstream films fail.

riverboat1 · 01/06/2014 17:11

Exactly nobody. And more to the point, when you apply the test in reverse (ie are there more than two named men, who talk to each other, about something other than a woman) you notice that the vast majority of films pass easily.

ThingsThatShine · 01/06/2014 17:59

YANBU. Misogyny is everywhere and it is sickening. The way some of my colleagues openly speak about women is outrageous and they are professionals who presumably do care about their reputation - so god knows what they say when they are not in front of their colleagues!

oldgrandmama · 01/06/2014 18:13

Oh yes, definitely. I am long retired (journalist) but it was rife then and is rife now. Hate to admit this, but my 'gentleman friend' of thirteen years is a rank, out and out misogynist too ... I'd suspected it for ages but when he started banging on about old guys being arrested for historic sexual offences was just a case of a 'harmless grope' and the women (often just kids when it happened) were making it all up/making a fuss about nothing ... well ...!

Oh, yes, ex husband (the one who was shagging my best friend) once announced during a dinner party that the thickest, most stupid man ever was far, far cleverer than the most brilliant woman ... someone (a woman) challenged him with a 'did he mean an amazing female surgeon/engineer/physicist/whatever was not as clever as the thickest man' and he said definitely! (God, I don't half pick 'em, don't I?!)

[Quietly seething about this, and other stuff ... might need some MN advice, in another thread Angry ]

OP, that is appalling treatment. Go after them with all guns blazing.

Rhine · 01/06/2014 18:21

Hell yes. I recently got into an argument with a man on Facebook group I'm a member of. Didn't know him from Adam, but I challenged his views on something and pretty much destroyed him (not difficult, he was as thick as mince and barely literate). The response when he realised he had no come backs was to attack me personally, calling me an "ugly bitch" and generally attack my appearance. When I turned that back on him and told him that he was hardly one to talk about other people looks I was told that I deserved to get raped and that I was probably, and I quote, "foaming at the gash" at the thought of it.

The interesting thing was the amount of people who jumped to my defence, most of them were men, which reminded me that they're not all miogynistic arseholes. But yes, so many men still have issues with strong and intelligent women.

harriet247 · 01/06/2014 18:32

Almost every famous tv show atm. Sucks fucking ass. I pointed out to dp that practically EVERYTHING we watch has the blokes running around, being cool, breaking the rules, masterplans, geniuses etc and the female characters are either.....
A)whingey cows who spoil all the fun
B)just there to get shagged/get tits out
C)raped/beaten then rescued by said man
D)have a scrap of brain but are too emotionally unstable to do job correctly.

Guilty shows include; breaking bad, dexter, ray donovan, game of thrones, that one with matthew mcconaughy in, walking dead, ... sure everyone can think of more :(

pianodoodle · 01/06/2014 18:39

YANBU Angry

arethereanyleftatall · 01/06/2014 18:48

Yanbu. At all. I say that with 100% confidence.
At my old company, the 30 most senior positions were held by men. I left when I , finally, realised I was never going to progress in the company, simply because of my gender.

PosyFossilsShoes · 01/06/2014 19:37

YANBU. This is an astonishing study which shows that not only are women discriminated against in employment (in science) but that the people doing the discriminating give ostensibly sound reasons for doing so - saying the women are not as competent as the men even when the CVs are identical.

Seriously, read this article (not long) and boggle. blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/2012/09/23/study-shows-gender-bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/

Original poster
zeezeek · 01/06/2014 21:18

I think what really shocked me is that I had been subjected to sexism for years and has just taken it for granted. It didn't help that I was seen as the girl who married her PhD supervisor so people saw me as having an easy ride because of it and, I guess, I accepted that I was very lucky. Actually, I am very lucky, because my husband (yes, my PhD supervisor) is the least misogynist man in the world and, actually, he had no influence on my career after my PhD because I completely changed direction. Everything that I have achieved in the last 20 years, all my research, all my publications and even the fact that I am now a Professor (though got my Chair AFTER several men in the department who were less successful and I suspect I got it because they needed a token woman and the HoD respects my DH) is due to my own hard work.

When I was just starting out I actually lost out on a job because the man employing me thought that I needed to be home in good time to cook my DH's dinner.

And why is it that some men resort to cheap insults about a woman's looks in an argument?

OP posts:
GatoradeMeBitch · 01/06/2014 23:16

Even when films pass the Bechdel test they can still be very unpleasant. Someone here pointed out before that Suckerpunch passes the Bechdel test. The women don't have to be having a pleasant conversation!

I think there is a better test, but I can't remember it off the top of my head.

traininthedistance · 01/06/2014 23:42

YANBU OP, this year the only remaining female Chair in my department is leaving (ten male Chairs remain...there are no female Readers, and only 3 female SLs, out of nearly 40 staff. Christ it's depressing). Our student body is 2/3rds female as well, but the stranglehold of the men on the academic jobs is unshakeable and, if anything, getting worse. There were far more women in the department 10, 20 and 40 years ago.

Academia is really bad for this.

Original poster
zeezeek · 02/06/2014 20:53

Some female colleagues and I are seriously considering going freelance...and saying a big fuck you to the dicks running the department!

OP posts:
HelenHen · 02/06/2014 22:00

I rate films by the bechdel test too and very few pass. A program I've been enjoying recently is Fargo and it has a strong female chararcter... One! I realised last night that the other females are: the pregnant wife; the daughter; the slutty widow; the receptionist, etc. There is no reason for this! Although I think it might be cos women brighten up the screen, thereby detracting from the plot or something equally stupid