in thinking my neighbours are being pathetic over a fence post!!!

[sweetkitty]

This is giving me the rage today!

Two detached house separated by a 6 foot fence. Fence posts on our side but before we moved in we assume neighbours replaced original builders fence (which everyone else has) with posh fence so the two sides if their garden are the same. On the other side of out garden we don't have fence posts so that's other neighbours fence IYSWIM.

So we decided to extend the fence and make our in fenced side garden into our back garden, increase size if back garden put a she's there etc. So fence runs at 90 degrees to house then runs to a post then posh neighbours fence starts. We planned to move the fence 90 degrees on the post and extend with new fence. We don't encroach on neighbours property at all and as the fence is already attached to the post we are only moving it round.

Now neighbours have said we cannot do this, that the post belongs to them and they don't want it touched. The post is in what I assume is our property but they are saying no it's actually theirs and they paid for the post and the fence.

I agree the fence is theirs but everyone else has 6ft fence as standard so why did they not have and pay extra for the posts?

I actually can't believe they are arguing about a bloody fence post that our fence is already attached to!

I couldn't be bothered arguing yesterday so said fine well just run it for the next post about 2 feet away which means we lose 2 feet of garden but I can't be doing with the hassle.

The other option is to sink a post next to the "debated " post and use that instead.

I can't believe that we don't own any of our side fencing to our garden though???

Can anyone she's any light on this?

No all I can make out is that we each have exactly half of the land between the houses.

What Fairy said is correct in these circumstances.

Because I'm an extremely petty diligent person, I'd be out measuring the land between the houses to find out exactly where the border was and where the fence is in relation to it.

Check the deeds - but our deeds weren't helpful to us - apparently not as uncommon as you'd think - there was no T and all it said was that there had to be a linked chain fence at edge of boundary - it's not there normal fences all round.

In our case the fence post are in the middle of the fence not one side.

We put our own fence up round right along existing one. It was easier.

Other neighbour clearly think we own other side as they've replaced opposite one with their neighbour at their expense. I don't see that mid housing row we'd own two fences and our difficult neighbours none as they claimed.

x-post - ideally you need to talk it through with them then. Our neighbours weren't open to that with us.

Strictly speaking fence posts in the middle of the fence denote shared ownership but these days people don't seem to understand fence etiquette and just stick them up how they like.

The other side neighbours have clearly told us the left hand fence is theirs, the right hand side is other neighbours so we have no side fence!

It's just pathetic we cut a cut in the fence last year to get access to the garden so reduced load on post now we are just putting back the same load. It's going to look more stupid as the fence will come down then cut in 2 feet and we will have this 2 feet strip of land between us and the neighbour doing nothing (or storing the nasty garden waste bin as someone suggested)!

I just hate the way they are like oh we are reasonable people but it's our fence and our posts and you can't touch them

Seriously, check if the actual panels of the fence run down the boundary. It they do then the posts are on you land and you have bargaining power.

If you own exactly half of the land between you have you measured up to see where the halfway mark is? I know it's stressful I have my house up for sale because of shitty neighbours.

Interesting PleaseJustShootMeNow - we'd have be happy with shared ownership but they wanted the fence to be ours and us to pay for changes we thought unnecessary.

It started years of petty shit from them - attacking our plants and other stuff. We ended up paying more to put own fence up - but it's the max 2 meters so we get much more privacy anyway prior were 4 ft.

They are still not happy but leave us be now.

If the posts are on your property, you can give them the choice of being reasonable about this or paying to have the whole fence redone with the posts on their own side

This.

If they paid for the fence it is there property. You are not allowed to do anything to it. You do not own your 'half'. If they have put 'their' post on your land or on what should be a jointly maintained boundary then that is another matter. You can ask them to move the fence. If they refuse you can carefully remove it and put it on their land. You should notify them first.

If it it's a joint fence then you need to decide between you and your neighbour what type of fence to have and you will both jointly be liable for the cost of erecting it and maintaining it. This wouldn't be easy if you are arguing with them.

People are correct in saying that the only thing that matters is what is in the deeds and land registry. It's a pain if it's not clear what the situation is in the deeds but it's not unusual. The left hand/right hand fence, posts on my side/their side ownership 'rules' are pretty meaningless.

I can see the nieghbours point of view about not wanting you to do anything to their fence especially if you don't have the best relationship. You are complaining that they are arguing about a bloody fence but in their Eyes, I bet, they are thinking the same about you .

I would confirm whose land the fence is on and then take it from there. It is definitely a bad idea to get into an argument with them if possible.

You could list this problem on The Garden Law forum. It's abit feisty but there are very knowledgable posters on it.

I think with most newer houses, all fences are jointly owned. we jointly own the 2 side fences and are responsible for the fence at the bottom next to the path.

but whatever, yanbu- petty neighbours are irritating.

I know it's a pain, but it pays to get these things resolved without having a barney over it if at all possible.

Does the title plan show the boundary extending from the midpoint between the houses, i.e. the party wall, to the end of the gardens? If so then if the fence follows that line and the deeds to do not mention ownership of the fence further then it is a joint responsibility. All this business about House A owning the fence to left and House B owning the fence to the right is simply not the case unless that is what the deeds state.

Tread carefully, but check out whether the fence is on the boundary or to your neighbours' side of it. If it's on their land, then you can't touch it.

Past neighbours wanted replace their old fence which was on their side of the boundary 'to make their garden bigger'. They thought it was just not straight, not realising there is an original flag wall about a metre high along the boundary line between the two gardens. When they saw it from my side they wanted to take the flag wall out. I said I didn't want that, but rather than discuss the options they insisted their fencing contractor would proclaim on the matter when he came to do the work. What with him being an expert on land law and all .

They then refused to speak to me and I spent two weeks worrying I would come home to find my garden reduced in size. Upshot was he replaced their fence with a slightly straighter one on their side of the boundary.

If they hadn't been so pushy - 'this (flag wall) will take some getting out' while trying to see if it moved - I'd have willingly discussed what we could do, for example some sort of deep trellising above. NDN's H even drunkenly threatened me on the doorstep.

So my advice is don't let this escalate OP.

I can't the deeds don't show it in that detail

We aren't touching the fence at all just moving our fence that is attached to the post 90 degrees to the front instead of the side.

Their argument was stress on the post but as I said we cut a gate into our fence last year so there was less stress on the fence now were just putting the same amount of stress on it.

I think then that the fence and posts are a joint responsibility but since they paid for an upgraded fence as they wanted all the 3 sides to be the same that they assumed it is theirs even if the posts are on our property.

Options are another fence post as close to there as we can or just run the fence off the gate post 2 feet away and have 2 feet less of garden, well it will be 16 feet odd less!

Just cannot see why anyone would get picky about moving a fence slat really and attaching it another way!

If the posts are your side, just butt a new one up to it.

However, yes, if you are moving the same panel round a quarter turn then they are being arsey.

Robert Frost. 1875–

64. Mending Wall

SOMETHING there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing: 5
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made, 10
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go. 15
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
"Stay where you are until our backs are turned!"
We wear our fingers rough with handling them. 20
Oh, just another kind of outdoor game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
He is all pine and I am apple-orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him. 25
He only says, "Good fences make good neighbors."
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
"Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows. 30
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down!" I could say "Elves" to him, 35
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there,
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me, 40
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

It depends if you want to lose that 2 feet then. You could always get a surveyor in who will be able to tell you for certain where the land lies.
If you want to get on with your neighbours then leave the 2 feet but will it end here with them?

I think it will end with the two feet, were not planning on doing anything else.

The annoying thing aswell is that we actually cut their bit of grass for them in front of the fence and I weed it when doing my own! They are usually ok just say hello bit of chat about the weather never really friendly but this is the first time they've said anything like this.

Well good luck. I hope it turns out ok for you.

Personally I'd get a post put in right next door to their post and attach the fence to that.

Our deeds are clearly marked with a T on the right hand fence looking out from the house but ours is a 60s terrace.

It might be that the fence is not aboundary fence at all and is entirely on their land just butting up to the boundary rather than stradling it.I
t is extremely difficult prove where the boundary is and the Land Registry are clear that the documents they hold are not sufficient for resolving boundary disputes.

I must have a brain block, because on threads like these I can never visualize the set up...