To be surprised by how difficult it is to get (non-urgent) medical attention?

[VelvetSpoon]

I phoned my GP surgery today to make an appointment.

I am not ill, it is not life threatening. However, it is something that ideally I would prefer to arrange sooner rather than later.

The next available appointment is on 10 June.

The surgery used to operate open appointments on certain mornings (between 8.30-9.30 I think) where you could turn up and wait to be seen. This has now been replaced by an arrangement where you call in on the morning, and there are 10 appointments available (so if you're caller 11, hard luck). However, the next one of those is not til next Tues and of course absolutely no guarantee I'll even get seen then.

I asked if there were any other options - yes, apparently I can attend a local clinic. Great, I thought. Except it then transpires the local clinics only see the under 25s

I was left feeling distinctly unimpressed, and still no closer to actually seeing a Dr! Oh, and to add insult to injury, the only appt they had on the 10th is at 1pm, too early to get to if I take an afternoon off, and too late to get to work in time if I have the morning off. Surely I should not have to take an entire day off for a (pretty routine) Dr's appointment, and have to wait 2 bloody weeks for it?!!

Just like any profession, there are good and bad GPs, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise. There are many who are working tirelessly, but lots of others who are making a bloody decent living from not actually working that hard at all.

I had the same GP from the age of 4-29. He was brilliant. If you ever needed to see him the same day, you did. He started surgery at 8 in the morning, carried on until the waiting room was empty. Home visits all afternoon, then evening surgery, which went on til 8 at night sometimes if there were people waiting, he'd just carry on regardless of how long he'd been working, whether he'd stopped for lunch, etc. When my dad died, my GP wrote me a handwritten letter expressing his sadness, and paying tribute to him as an inspirational man (he was, but so was my GP).

For the last 10 years or so I've been at my current surgery. Leafy London suburb, not some inner-city deprived area. House prices in my area are £500k plus. It's a nice area. I doubt very much any practice could use the excuse of being unable to recruit here...

My surgery has a number of GPs. I can't tell you how many exactly, because staff turnover is such that I've never seen the same GP twice, or heard the same GP name referred to when I've been waiting, even when I've been for appointments only weeks apart. Not one of the GPs there would have a clue who I was - there'd be no chance of any patient getting a letter like my old GP sent me!

Their surgery hours were originally 9-11, and 4-6. No evenings, no early mornings. This changed relatively recently (last 5 years or so) but even now the last appt is 6.30 and first one is 8.30. Whilst some GPs I'm sure work bloody hard for their money, I'm really not convinced the ones at my practice do!

I'm not a GP but I know the work doesn't finish with the last patient in surgery. There's paper work, phone calls and house calls. Then when they get home CPD.

aspiringhuman To be honest the same as a lot of other professions in the public sector and they definitely get paid a hell of a lot more. I know the starting salary for an F1 is still more than I earn after 5 years experience with additional responsibility and i do approximately 70-80 hours a week as the norm.

My practice don't do home visits except for the terminally ill and then only in the afternoon. There is usually only 1 GP still there for the last appointments of the day, and as soon as the patients leave, so do they (i've been outside waiting for a bus 5 mins after my appt ended, and seen the GP leaving and locking up).

You'll have a job convincing me they work even a quarter as hard as my childhood GP.

As for why I don't go to another practice, they are all similarly bad in this town. The slightly better ones are full and can't accept new patients. It was the same when I moved here, which is why I ended up with the surgery I did, it was the only one that wasn't already full.

Oh please MrsRTea - I'm not blaming all patients, and I certainly didn't say they are all greedy time wasters. But there are lots - and unless you work in primary care you have no idea as to how many unnecessary appointments we see.

And as for campaigns - I have heard two; one for a persistent cough, and one for blood in your poo. I never heard one that says 'if you wake at 1000 with a sore throat phone at 1026 for an appointment this afternoon' (which happened to me today).

Nobody is saying all patients attend inappropriately and demand free prescriptions. Just HCPs trying to explain why we just can't cope with the demands made upon us.

And here we go. The GP haters are here, those who resent a well paid hard working professionals devoured with bitterness and envy. I'm off.

Macdoodle if that was aimed at me I am definitely not a GP hater, I have many friends/family who work in medical practice from Surgeon to Nurse. I have a lot of respect for them and their training.

But it does grate when the service provided is poor, lacking in consideration and then comments are made on here about how poorly paid they are for the hours they do.

I do not think I am poorly paid, I love my job and think it is well paid but I work similar hours for probably about half the pay - taking the reported amount and taking about 35% off it. I am certainly not devoured in bitterness and envy, just want to be treated with the same consideration I show the people I work with.

I'm not a gp hater, i love my current gp, and i loved the one i had from birth before that. They are an inspiration to me, and at my lowest point give me something to aim for. I want to do that.

Reading stories about awful gps and stupid changes in rules makes me wish i were doing it already. I really missed my calling in life. Fingers crossed I'll fix that :)

I haven't seen any GP haters Mcdoodle. I've seen your view challenged in a factual and measured way. If your view is factually correct then you should be challenging back with evidence based information.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm also sorry that there are people who have had poor experiences due to poor management of resources by people who are very intelligent and very hightly paid.

Your attitude of "I cannot be questioned or challenged" encapsulates I think what is wrong with the NHS. A lot is wrong but the mere people, several stations below the doctors are supposed to be ever grateful and to suck it up. Complaints are a free form of market research - don't you think it would be constructive to listen and modify the service. But then, those who run are so intelligent they follow, like sheep, the advice of ignorant politicians.

I do know a chap who is a GP who is on more than £250,000. He manages two practices which are the best and most successful in my borough and is a labour party activist. He deserves that because he listens and frankly has done more for local people with his little finger than the most of the rest of the NHS put together. I don't agree with his politics but he is a decent local bloke who deserves every penny he earns.

Didn't say it wasn't like that for other professionals noodle I was just pointing out that the last appoint at the surgery being at half 6 wasn't in itself proof that GPs don't work hard or long hours. A lot of paper work can be done at home, leaving the surgery does not necessarily mean that they're finished work they could be going anywhere eg a patient, meeting etc.

You can't assume there aren't many house bound or terminally ill patients in an area btw people tend to underestimate the figures. These visits can be very time consuming and you have to factor in travel time too. House visits are generally limited in an attempt to maximise the availability of appointments.

Please remember that the number of GPs have not increased at the same rate as the number of patients. For example i live in a small town where I grew up. When i was small there were 3.5 WTE GPS and the town had a population of 3-4000. We're now approaching 10000 people but have 4 WTE GPS. Add into the mix an aging population, increased availability of medication and treatments meaning there's more point in seeing your GP. Further add in the move to Primary care focus, care at home rather than in hospital without the proportionate staff increases and surely it's obvious why the system is under pressure.

BTW I speak as someone who works long hours for 13k. I've only met one GP who didn't work hard tbh and he was hated by every single one of his colleagues, they hated him more than the patients did. I remember his receptionist muttering death threats under her breath. I've met a few more GPs I dislike for other reasons but all but this one worked hard. I've met 100s of GPS over the years in several different practices.

When I was a child though; there were two GPs in the large village (about 4-5000 people). They were brothers, there were no appointments, there were no receptionists, there were no nurses. People arrived, the organised ones arrived early so they didn't have to wait too long. The surgery closed at 11.00. The door was shut at 11 and they worked until they had seen everyone. Sometimes there could be about 15 people waiting. If you needed a referral they wrote the letter in front of you with a fountain pen and gave it to you to take to the hospital; same for an Xray. If your ears needed syringing they did it; if you had a wound they cleaned and dressed it; I remember having a terrible graze with a loose flap of skin embeded with gravel and one of the cleaned it and dressed it and bandaged it and gave instructions for care - he said it was worth doing because it would save me some stitches.

There was so much less bureacracy but it was so much more holistic and caring and efficient and I think everyone respected them more because they got their hands dirty. When the medical centre opened it all went downhill. I don't think they were backwards in telling people not to waste their time either. And when surgery shut they did their home visits. one used to have a ashtray and packet of fags on the desk as well

My DH was at the doctors on Tuesday, GP referred him there and then in front of him, got the receptionist to chase up the appointment, got her to call us and tell us the appointment was f the next morning.

What's so bad about nurses btw? You seem to hate the fact they exist.

Oh and the GPs I know hate the bureaucracy themselves, they don't want it. It's required by he system as requested by the Government so they can tell the public how they're doing etc.

Not a GP hater here either macdoodle, just pointing out that some ( many?) GPs benefited considerably from the last changes. My DH is a Medic, many of our friends are, but of our GP friends they all work fewer hours for more money since the last reshuffle. I don't blame them, they did not organise it, but they now do no on call and get a whole day off mid week! with not particularly late nights the other 4.
At my GPs ( I drive past there on the way to work) the car park is totally empty at 7:15 am when I leave in the morning, and totally empty 4/5 nights when I return at 6 pm. Not one of them is doing anywhere near a 12 hr day.
My grandfather was a GP, and he did indeed work 12 hr dys,lus all his own on call ( apart from that his wife did for him)
Modernising medical practice has not in general, in my experience left GPs worse off.
Btw all my GP mates ( of whom there are many) earn considerably more than £100k. I literally do not not know of a GP who earns less than that, I am in the 10s of GPs rather than random individuals.

Velvet - why shouldn't the GPs leave once the last patient has been seen? Perhaps they are taking work home to finish there? Perhaps they have children they want to see? I really don't understand your point.

Our pharmicists are next to useless. Gave up asking them, as their reply was virtually always to see the gp!

Ours is a surgery that is going downhill.
Too many patients I think.
It has tried to make things better by opening longer hours, but they seem like they are losing the battle tbh.

Have just received a letter back from the practice manager which is a great effort in placing all the blame with someone other than them. It is either my fault for having a job, or the governments fault for not providing them with enough money to offer a better service.

At no point in the letter is there any acceptance of the fact that they have done at least three things wrong which is their fault - receptionist who is rude to me, phone calls when I have asked not to be disturbed due to my own professional commitments, and people not phoning me back at all for over 7 hours!

Oh well apparently it is the best surgery in town apparently so guess I have to suck it up and hope I do not need any medical attention anytime soon.

I rang my surgery this morning at 8.30 and was seen at 10.50. I explained it wasn't urgent really but it was my day off. The receptionist asked what was wrong and booked me in.

We have three GP's practices in our village. Mine and the dc's where you turn up and wait and be seen on the day (lunchtime surgery) or if an emergency are given an appointment to be seen that morning at the main surgery in a different village. Dh's where it's appointments only and you are seen within a week or emergencies get a call back and triaged. Df's surgery have a few emergency appointments each day that are generally taken by 8 o clock as people queue outside before the phones open. Other routine appointments can't be booked more than two weeks in advance but there are never appointments available within the two weeks so it takes repeated phone calls to get seen by a GP and it's generally a three week wait.
No idea why there is such a difference in appointment waiting times as all three practices are pretty much the same size.

I think i have a chest infection and called my GP this morning. Polite and helpful receptionist and a choice of 2 appointments the same day. Seen on time and collected 2 prescriptions ( for which I did not have to pay). Referred for a chest x-Ray on the spot which I could have had within the hour, but I needed to get home so I am popping back for it first thing tomorrow.

In case it wasn't obvious I am not in the UK! I have insurance through work and those who can't afford insurance have their premiums paid on a sliding scale (ie means tested). The government does not get involved in delivery, which means if I don't like a GP or specialist I just see a different one.

It's just so superior to our system I cannot see a single reason to keep primary care in its current form. The only people who want to preserve it either GP's with a vested interest or people who think the only alternative is the US system.

OH is a medical consultant and agrees with me. One of his GP mates brags about how he makes 1,000 quid for every call out to see a prisoner in a custody suite who needs 2 paracetamol. It's a piss take.

I usually manage to get appointments - but I tend to avoid the Dr unless I am really really ill. DH and I are always fascinated by the questions "is it an emergency?" though. Last time DH just said, "I don't know, I'm not a doctor". We can't work out where 'emergency' lies - after all, if I thought something was (what I consider to be) an emergency, I'd bypass the Dr and head straight to A&E!

Is it an emergency means are you in pain? Do you have an infection? Is it an acute problem ie not something that's been going on a few weeks and you've suddenly decided you want to be seen today. Anything that can't wait until the next available routine appt.