To not understand the importance of being in the EU.

[bellarations]

It's slightly embarrassing actually.
Please can you explain in simple terms (formy benefit) the benefits to every day citizens in the UK.

Yay a Europe thread I agree with!

I get so fed up when people trot out the 'it costs is so much' line, without considering what we get back for that.

We've got a good deal with the EU - in but not in the Euro, which is a good place to be IMO.

The EU isn't perfect - it's a hugely ambitious project and there's nothing else like it, so no one else's mistakes to learn from.

I wish we could just move on from questioning whether we should be in, to accepting we are in and looking at how we can improve it. There's an awareness across the whole of Europe that it's not quite working as it is - incomplete monetary union, too fast and wide enlargement, bureaucratisation problems - but it doesn't mean it can't be reformed. Sometimes I think people forget just how long we've been part of the European Community, it would take a lot of unravelling to get us out.

At least Milliband came out with it today - that Europe isn't our problem and getting out of it won't solve our problem. That we need to be part of the EU and to be an active and constructive part of it. We have spent far to long letting the conservatives poison our view of the EU. They don't like the workers rights, the environmental legislation - all they want is a free for all trade zone.

I think part of our problem is that we haven't been wholehearted members for far too long - and tend to be dragged along whinging all the time, rather than being constructive (and we all know how much fun it is dragging along a whiny one, trying to humour them to keep them happy !).

Also we gain more (money, subsidies) than we put in

Germany are basically subsidising all of us.

Oh thank god there are sensible people out there...

A lot of the regeneration of deprived areas in this country is squarely down to EU money. I went on a training course about engaging with the European parliament once - I can't remember the exact figure, but we learned that EU membership costs less than £10 per person in the UK and we get a lot more back than that.

You may not see those benefits in the leafy home counties, but people living in places like Liverpool and West Cumbria will certainly feel the benefits, even if they don't realise the funding has come from Europe.

I second the 'peace' argument. The eu has been very important in stabilising and anchoring young democracies like Spain, Portugal, greece and eastern Europe, and also 'old' democracies where political institutions are less stable or reliable like Italy. This doesn't apply to the uk, but I nevertheless find it an important benefit for europe.

Trade and economics. The EU is a massive economic power with 500 million people. The gives us a powerful voice in world negotiations - far greater than the uk could exert alone.

I live and work in another eu country - easy thanks to the eu.

even if they don't realise the funding has come from Europe.

that is the problem - this kind of benefit is kept very quiet.

I wish there were some unbiased, independent report about the actual costs and benefits, without even including the far harder to value (freedom of movement, peace dividend etc).

Trade. As someone said upthread, if we are not part of the eu we would still have to comply with eu rules in order to trade with Europe, but have no influence over how those rules are made.

These are the issues that need to be addressed Publicly by the Political Parties - all of them.

The Pros and Cons need to be explained to the voters IN DETAIL so the voters can then make an informed choice.

And the EU MUST be reformed - in 18 years none of the annual accounts could be signed off, due to the huge anomolies. That is absolutely disgraceful - some people are lining their pockets like some tinpot dictatorship (I very strongly suspect) and the EU Body Politic is corrupt.

it is every citizens money that they are stealing/squandering.

The EU has some very good points to commend it -but needs to put its house in order asap and thoroughly.

I remember when the country was up in arms over having metric measures forced on them by the EU. Remember the Metric Martyrs? I was gobsmacked when I did my law degree and discovered that the EU had actually waived the requirement to go metric for the UK but the UK government at the time rejected the waiver and insisted on the change. Then they sat back and let the EU take all blame.

I also get really cross when people call for withdrawal from the EU because they don't like a particular decision from the European Court of Human Rights as they think these decisions should not be forced on them by the EU, that the UK should be free to make it's own decisions on these matter. HELLO! The European Court of Human Rights is not the court of the EU. They are not connected and decisions by the Court of Humans Rights are not binding on the UK. The UK doesn't have to follow them if it doesn't want to. The UK chooses to abide by them.

I heard somewhere that the difficulty people have with the EU in the UK is that the focus is on what the EU is not on what the EU does. Other countries don't seem to have this issue so much.

Switzerland aren't in the EU and they haven't been at war in forever, maybe ever. Norway isn't in the EU either and coincentally they haven't been at war either. Meanwhile we've been at war with Argentina, Iraq and Afghanistan while in the EU. So how it prevents war is beyond me. It's just a bunch of politicians lining their pockets and making it easier for businesses to exploit us. A total con, and the sooner we are out of it the better.

" They don't like the workers rights, the environmental legislation - all they want is a free for all trade zone."
That's utterly ridiculous. The majority of conservatives want us out of the EU. What do you think it is at the moment but a free for all trade zone? How has being in the EU benefitted workers rights in this country?

If you look at the history of violent conflicts involving Norway and Sweden you will see there is a huge difference in attitudes and culture between the UK and Norway and Switzerland when it comes to war.

Switzerland has been neutral forever !

War further down the thread refers to major european war - like 1914-18 and 1939-45. The fact that the major protagonists of those wars (the dominant nations in Europe) have been working together rather than against each other for so long is highly likely to be one of the reasons we haven't had any real conflict in Europe in that time (excluding the Yugoslav war which was outside the EU, and its whole own story).

If you know each other you are less likely to invade each other.

We don't need the EU to know each other. Developments in technology have brough us close together, things like the internet and air travel. I can't see how the EU has brought me closer to anyone in Europe.

I live and work in another EU country. My DS is at school here. The EU has a reciprocal arrangement with the NHS that any citizen covered under the NHS is considered to have had health insurance making applying for state health insurance easy (if we hadn't had NHS membership, and hadn't had insurance, we would have had to pay a lot more for private insurance.)

I have a friend here from Serbia who is desperately trying to get a Croatian, not Serbian, passport for her DD so that her DD can travel to the UK without a visa. Not to live, just for a holiday. You could say goodbye to cheap Ryanair flights out to European cities, or booze cruises to France, as you'd need a visa.

"You could say goodbye to cheap Ryanair flights out to European cities, or booze cruises to France, as you'd need a visa."

Utter rubbish. Ryanair do flights to Switzerland, Norway, Russia and other non EU countries for the same kind of prices as they do EU countries. And you do not need Visas to enter these countries. Or the USA for that matter, which has also benefitted from cheap flights, yet strangely, is not part of the EU.

You most certainly need a visa to fly to Russia.

Cheap flights to the US? Where?

We trade with the EU.
We sell cars to them (Toyota) and aero engines (Rolls Royce) and trains (Bombardier). Bet you've guessed where I live now - but if we come out of the EU my locality will go down the drain.

Equality legislation including the provisions relating to sex discrimination

How many of you have taken, or plan to take, parental leave?
You can thank the EU for that.

We don't trade with the EU. We trade with countries within the EU. As do plenty of countries outside the EU. There's no EU legislation that affects us that we couldn't just pass ourselves through our own democratically elected government. And it would be far easier to hold our own politicians to account without them being able to claim their hands were tied by the EU.

I thought you did need a visa to enter the US? My US friends need a visa to enter the EU!