To wonder why it's deemed acceptable to take children out of school for cheap holidays?

[shrunkenhead]

Am I the only one who thinks it's not on to make your child miss school for the sake of a cheap holiday???

We value education too.

But we also value family time very highly

I don't get it either. Teachers can't go on holiday in termtime - that would surely be very disruptive. They have chosen to be teachers so one would hope they knew that. Same with parents - you've chosen to have DC, you know they go to school so why do it? It's not exactly a surprise. And when people say they can't afford it - afford what, exactly? Because it's amazing how many people manage to have fantastic cheap holidays (and memories of them) camping in the UK, but other people do seem to think they have a God-given right to have a foreign holiday every year.

We haven't been abroad for I don't know how long, and when DD starts school in September we won't be even longer. One day I hope we can take her abroad but not at the expense of her education.

Ooh lovely, my 1st biscuit. Thank you and I still don't care what other people think
Oh, and I wasn't saying that other people's husbands don't work hard, how ridiculous!

We used to go on 'cheap' UK holidays during term time. Holidays abroad were beyond our wildest dreams; we loved our Haven holidays but they were completely beyond our reach in the summer holidays. Also, my dad's illness meant that we couldn't go at the busiest times or he'd spend all day in the caravan - and denying young carers a fun holiday with their parents isn't really on, IMO.

Shrunken, anyone working business hours has 104 days off a year, plus whatever annual leave they get from their work. Lots of folk esp in unsociable locations or jobs will have unusual arrangements.

Out of interest, can you afford to go away in school holidays? Where do you go?

With you there, emms1981!

We cannot afford to go during the holidays, however my daughter hardly ever has days off school, most terms are 100% attendance. My school used to say if your child has had at least 98% attended they could have up to 5 days a term out.

Last year she missed 2 days before the end of October half term, we went as a family to Rome. We spent our time visiting the Forum, Colosseum, the Vatican, lots of churches, museums, looking at various statues, fountains, Caravaggio's in the Galleria Borghese and loads more.

To this day she happily tells people about her trip to Rome (as does my 3 year old) and quite frankly, for the 2 days she missed at school, she learnt FAR more on holiday with us. I feel it's such a shame that she will now miss out, we cannot afford to go away during the school holidays. In fact, I feel so strongly we have considered a whole lifestyle change (including home schooling or the possibility of moving abroad), we value family time and at the moment it feels like the politicians don't agree.

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It's not acceptable to me.

I do have a personal theory that the new holiday fines are a Tory conspiracy to keep The Poor in their place by stopping them from having any quality of life when they should be slaving away at school/work.

Although I can understand why parents do it I don't actually agree with taking large chunks of holiday off during term time. A day at the end of term when actually there is nothing going on is one thing but in the middle of term when they are in full swing is really unfair on the child.

When I think about the amount of possible holiday time there is: 6 weeks at summer; 2 weeks at christmas; 2 weeks at easter and 3 half terms I find it amazing that people take holidays during term time. Summer and easter holidays will always be expensive but there is less of a premium on half terms and Christmas and not every destination is super-expensive either.

RiverTam speaks a lot of sense!

What does the reception class get for 100% attendance?

Please say that it's a certificate saying 'prizes for collective attendance at primary are pointless and often discriminatory, but as long as Ofsted keep prioritising this over other more meaningful ways to measure progress and attainment, we will continue to make this into a massive deal, place guilt on children for circumstances outside their control, and take other illogical actions'.

My kid isn't even at school yet. When he goes, we're in the fortunate position of being able to afford to go away in school holidays, though we'll have to scale but. However I have enough empathy to know that we are fortunate to be in this position, and for those who are in the position of cheap term time holiday or no holiday at all, things are not nearly so black and white.

As it is, England's bonkers fragmented term/holiday ratios mean that we will have to curtail the amount of time we spend with my family abroad, as the one time of year that there is enough time to realistically undertake two day-long flights, spend quality time with family and give a child the chance to get over jet lag (ie UK summer) is hopelessly inconvenient for my family. Still, we're luckier than most.

Loving the judge "I value education" as if people who take their children out don't. 2 weeks in a tent in the rain in this country or 2 weeks abroad with the sun, difficult choice there!

It is not acceptable to me except in extreme circumstances e.g. forces or other jobs with no choice of holiday, extended 'one-off' visits either to family, for special events or where the family are going to help provide an education during the time off.

I say this as someone who works term-time and couldn't afford holidays as a child.

It is a bad example to set to children now and for their future - education is very important - except once a year when we take you out of school for a week to sit on a beach.

It also harms their progress, I've seen a GCSE student drop from a B to a G as a result of several holidays during term time.

Is it ok to take a child out a day early, the last day of term when all they do is play games (in primary anyway)? In my book, yes. Is it ok if, having flown halfway around the world for a family wedding in half-term, you stay another week? Yes, I think so. Is it ok to bugger off for a week's skiing or three-week beach holiday on the middle of term because it's cheaper then? In my opinion, no.

In mine: Yes, no and no. Imagine if a teacher whose subject was important to DC missed a week because s/he stayed another week after a family wedding on another continent during half term.

I'm a teacher but if ever in the future I changed careers or stopped working I would take my DD (and any future children) out of school for a holiday if my finances, preferred length of trip or working pattern meant that was necessary to enjoy an ideal holiday. Personally I think nothing can compare to the experience of being in a different culture and that is something I would want to introduce my children to and which cannot be done on a camping holiday in the UK. I dream of taking a several-month long trip around Asia with my children one day in the future and what a learning experience that would be.

Truthfully I don't think missing a week or of school makes a massive difference for children who are not already struggling when it's done outside of exam-periods. School is obviously important in terms of children's education but I value other settings for the education they can provide too and taking a child on holiday can offer a richer learning experience than a week in the classroom. If I was worried about the school they were As a parent I could incorporate some educational opportunities into the holiday, whether that be keeping a holiday diary, using a bus timetable and map to plan days out, trips to museums/historical monuments etc, if I was concerned about the education they were missing.

I do see why some parents value education within schools very highly and do not see opportunities for learning on holiday as equal, however that is not my view and I feel it is important that my children experience the world outside of the UK. I would of course try and manage to take the holiday within school holidays first but if that couldn't be done I would have no qualms about taking my children out of school for a holiday unless it was coming up to an important exam period (GCSEs or higher, I don't see SATs as important personally) or my child had their own reservations about missing school.

I have the perfect solution for you OP, do not take holidays during term time with your children and let other parents make their own decisions about their children.

In an ideal world I do agree with you OP but modern days mean that:

-Very often both parents work and it is quite hard to find time both can take off at the same time.

• A lot of families are struggling financially and these family are as deserving of a holiday as the ones who can afford to pay more during official holiday.

-Sometimes people have their entire family abroad and have to choose time that are convenient for them to visit that might clash with official school holiday.

Intheenddotcom you do realise there is more to holidays than sitting on a beach for a week?

OP I have no idea why this exercises you. Another child missing school for whatever reason has zero effect on you or your children.

One of my children has profound SN. We've not had a holiday for 6 years and won't be having one for the foreseeable because unfortunately it's not manageable. If by some miraculous improvement it became doable I would do it in a heartbeat, term-time or not.

There really are better things to get indignant about.

If I didn't work in a school then we'd still take our kids on holiday in the last week of term like when we used too. In that last week all they seem to do at school is watch dvds, play games and help take all the work down from the walls. Not of that is really educational. They never suffered and our one week away a year was a few hundred pounds cheaper.

And their attendance has always been very good.

Going away in the school holidays is much more expensive and if missing a few days of school is the only affordable way to have a holiday then so be it.

Peeps need a break. Time away from the grindstone that is work and school.

And it's no business of anyone elses!

At primary I was annoyed we couldn't go in the last week of summer term when they played games all week, or leave a day early at Christmas, when they did nothing.

At secondary it's why we can't take a holiday in 'trips week' when the whole school either goes on holiday or does treasure hunts etc round the school.

I notice that the education system doesn't put huge effort into providing extra catch up schooling to those who miss it through illness

It depends. When DS had a week off with bacterial tonsillitis at the beginning of Year 11, I asked his HoY to get on to his teachers for catch-up work. They were really good about it as they didn't want him to fall behind. Maybe you just have to be proactive about it.

I did Biology Higher (Scotland) without ever having done the O grade They gave me a course book to read so I could get up to speed. I missed 2 years of Biology classes and still got a B in the Higher. I doubt I would have gotten an A anyway.

Taking a child out of 2 weeks of school who has already missed several weeks is one thing. Missing the first or last few days of school once a year for a holiday isn't going to make a massive difference to most students. Plenty of children miss school through illness without any special measures past a couple of photocopied handouts having to be taken to resolve the missing days. Education is important but missing a few days of school is not the same as denying someone an education. Especially in primary school.

Peeps need a break. Time away from the grindstone that is work and school.

They have 13 weeks holiday a year from school

We value family time, eg time before and after school and wk ends. Sorry, hadn't realised about wk ends and shift workers so yes most people would get at least wk ends off anyway.