to think taking £s for an item you don't have, & then not returning it is theft - 02 rant

[BanoffeeSplitz]

Well maybe not theft - if they ever do actually get around to returning the money that is - but taking & holding money under false pretences at the very least. Surely that's just plain wrong? - or at the very least a bloody good way of alienating a potential customer?

Aaargh!

7th May: order PAYG phone on 02 website with click & collect to a local store, money taken from my credit card, order confirmation says phone 'will be available to collect on or after 10 May'

8th May: get an email saying 'Your order is being processed and will be despatched shortly' & 'We'll email or send you an SMS to confirm when your order has been
despatched so that you'll know when to expect your delivery. '

10th May: pop into shop to see if phone is ready to collect, staff check order number, can't find phone & suggest I wait for a text to say phone is ready to collect. Fair enough, I think - I haven't actually had a confirmation text yet.

Couple of days later: still haven't had a confirmation text, so phone 02 (oh yes, btw, the whole 'track your order' thing they refer to on the despatch email doesn't seem to actually exist on their website) and ask when the phone will be despatched...
"Oh, it's out of stock, would you like to wait for it or cancel the order?"
Decide to cancel the order, & ask when the money will be returned to me..
"That'll be 7-10 working days"
at that since they were able to take my money (for the phone they didn't even have in stock to sell ) immediately, but - OK - if that's how long it takes...
Ask if I'll be able to track the refund online - "No, just wait 7-10 days"
Will I get an email confirming that my order has been cancelled and my money will be refunded?
"No we can't do that" Not really too confident with that...

17th May: Phone to check the order has been cancelled... well if they aren't going to send me any kind of a confirmation that seems liek a good idea... "Oh yes, cancelled on 14th May, it'll take 7-10 days for a refund, there's no point phoning again before then"

23rd May: No refund has shown up yet - in the meantime I've had my credit card statement which has royally pissed me off since I now have to pay £250 to my credit card company for a phone I haven't received, which 02 apparently never even had in stock, and which they they still haven't got around to refunding me for...

phone 02 again..."your order's definitely been cancelled but it doesn't look as if the refund has been sent" FFS are these people ever going to give me my money back? Is this remotely normal behaviour for a supposedly reputable company?

Anyway the upshot is that a refund 'should' be back with me by 29th May - nice to know they can be definite about that I asked the question - nicely I promise - (honestly - I feel for the call centre bods, I've done thankless customer service myself) - a few times & I couldn't get her to say anything more definite than 'it should be with you by then' .

Can I get some kind of email confirmation, or anything in writing to say that they are cancelling the order & refunding? No, the system doesn't allow that...

Why does it take 10 working days* to refund someone when it takes them a single day to help themselves to your money for an item they don't even have in stock to sell you ? Some explanation follows, involving the processing of orders and refunds between different departments which tbh I didn't take in fully. Though it does occur to me that they wouldn't have this problem if they didn't actually take your money until they despatch your order which is what almost everyone else does. Or have I just been spoilt by some gentlemanly code of conduct which doesn't apply to mobile phone companies.

*this is a hypothetical '10 working days' at this point, remember, since it doesn't feel at this point as if they're ever going to give my money back or acknowledge other than verbally that they're planning to refund me.

Lesson learned - if you absolutely must buy a phone from 02 (not that I'm ever going to attempt that again) then FGS don't hand them any money unless you can physically see and touch the item they're selling you.

And if you're already a customer then just hope you never a have a problem that needs resolving - unless it's the kind where they fix it by taking money from you - they seem pretty efficient at that side of things.

And just re-read & can't actually believe I spent time typing that out, hope it didn't bore you to tears, it was quite boring making all those phone calls - just hope I can save someone else from making the mistake of trying to give 02 their custom .

Shame really, their PAY & GO GO GO offer for 4G looked quite promising - would've been nice to get a chance to try it out.

But on balance, I suppose best to find out at the outset that PAY & GO GO GO seems to stand for 'You PAY us for a phone that we aren't going to give you and then we GO GO GO away with your money and don't give it back until we feel like it, maybe sometime, maybe never'

Anyway - I'll let you know if I ever get my money back - & since they can't find a way of sending any kind of confirmation that my order's been cancelled - did I mention that 'Track My Order' seems to be a complete fiction? - then I'll use this thread to keep track of the progress of my as yet hypothetical refund

And breathe....

I'm on a roll - I could have carried on

Better here than to some hapless call-centre employee, anyway.

Tweet them. Seriously.

O2 are thieving bastards

Escalate it, ask for a manager and don't back down till you get one or google their directors and email them with your complaint, documenting each call and visit

Not sure how you'd fit that in a tweet!

AnyaKnowit - is that personal experience?

Wellwellwell3holesintheground - that's really good advice about Twitter.
Though I fear that anger & need for brevity would mean I ended up tweeting something like 'O2 are thieving bastards' or worse, which is possibly libellous at this stage...

How long do you think I need to wait before it stops being 'an annoyingly long time to process a refund' and becomes actual theft?

Plus my Twitter is for nice things ( & supporting local campaigns) & I suspect if I start tweeting in my current frame of mind I'm going to look like an O2 obsessed loon.

Would it make sense to set up a separate Twitter account specifically for this? Or is that the way of madness?

scroll down this page

for ceo info.

oops missed that bit off.

Suttonmum1

itsmeitscathy - I like your thinking

BlackeyedSusan - nice one...

Yes banoffee, its was only over a £10 sim but o2 lied

Asda have amazed me with their incompetence this week, similar situation in that the departments don't talk to each other and don't allow us plebs (their customers) to speak to anyone in the department that may know the answer to our question, or indeed even escalate a complaint...it's so frustrating!

My problem is sorted (I'm not really sure exactly how it got sorted in the end, I'm still confused but now my delivery is here I just want to forget I ever had the displeasure of using Asda Direct ), good luck with O2!

I am having the same sort of problem with the Sunday Times. I am trying to cancel a subscription. Four phone calls, ten e-mails and a live chat on the website and still they want to take my money. No-one answers me. I cannot get a name from anyone and no-one will get back to me. BUT when I stopped the Direct Debit at the bank I got an e-mail and a letter asking me to sort the problem out. Unbelievable.

Was listening to something on radio 4 about complaining via twitter and how much faster things were resolved. They were mostly talking banks but the gist was that it's the most effective method.

I may know someone very high up in Telefonica (the company that owns O2) and he may well agree

Just remembered that having bought the phone using my credit card may mean I have some redress via the credit card company, so I'll look into that. Can't remember how exactly, apart from a vague recollection that that's why it's good to use a credit card for major purchases.

Though I s'pose not until the quoted '10 working days' is up, as until then they are still within the terms of what they quoted me when I cancelled the phone.

But 10 working days for a refund is taking the piss in itself - if I'd realised that when I was placing my order (it may have been buried in some small print, it most certainly wasn't obvious) then I may not have placed the order in the first place, especially if it was made clear (it certainly wasn't) that they didn't even have a phone in their possession to sell to me.

For say, an ebay seller, or any company that gave a rat's arse about their customers, those would be ridiculous terms.

Just been reading about Fairphone www.fairphone.com/ - now they do take your money upfront when they haven't even built the phone yet, but for distinctly more ethical reasons .

I'm going to look into that, if I ever get my money back from O2

Yes query the charge with your credit card company and explain you did not receive the goods.

I hate them. Hate hate hate them.

I had a contract which was coming to an end. It had a discount on which would end at the end of the 12 months and without that the contract would go from being a good price to really stupidly expensive. So in good time I rang and asked to cancel and bought a sim for the pay as you go go go deal to use with the original phone. the promised emails/texts etc for the switching my number over to the new sim once contract was cancelled never came. phone again and it had never been cancelled .

Messages never came yet again. Then I used the online chat thing and it took me nearly 2 hours of being swapped around to different departments online to sort it out. I was fuming because by this time I had had a very expensive phone bill.

Eventually they cancelled the contract but I had told them not to bother switching my number over, I had no intention of staying with them. I yelled at them so much pointing out that my getting the expensive bill was due to their error in not cancelling when requested so they refunded it and more which I really don't understand as I appear to have made a profit even when you take off the payg sim I ought but never used but I wasn't about to spend another 2 hours on online chat to find out so I kept the money.

I got a giffgaff sim instead. I know they are linked to o2 but everything seems to simple with them. They switched my number almost instantly so I got to keep it anyway and the goodybags are nice and cheap.

just realised i made it sound like my 2 hours online chatting with them resulted in the expensive phone bill. I mean I had an expensive mobile phone bill because the contract had rolled over due to so much time elapsing between my asking to cancel the contract and them not doing it.

I agree with using twitter and emailing the CEO to get things resolved.

I did this with Sofaworks recently after ages on the phone going round in circles.

Two tweets later and it was miraculously sorted out.

The money goes into a holding account that's why it's so quick when you make payment. The company don't actually get the money that quickly.
Refunds depend partly on your bank. They can refund you but your bank may not process it or update it for a while. So the cannot be specific.
You knew the item was oos when you ordered yes? That's not stealing then.

Nope - didn't know the item was out-of-stock until a week after I'd ordered it - and only found out then because I phoned to ask why I hadn't had a despatch email - by which time I'd had an order confirmation email, a text from my credit card card co to confirm identity, and and an email telling me the order had been processed and could be expected to be ready for collection 'on Saturday or after'.

Even the 'or after' is a fiction if the phone doesn't exist, I think?

I'd be considerably less pissed off if I'd either
a) known it was out of stock when I ordered it (I wouldn't have bothered placing the order)
b) had an email to tell me it was OOS after placing the order - I would have cancelled the payment before it went out, or if that was too late then cancelled the order immediately & requested a refund.
c) been told in the shop when the checked my order number, that the phone was OOS - I would have been a bit pissed off, but I would at least have been able to cancel the order a few days earlier.
d) been able to use the 'Track Your Order' online that they referred to in their email and find out straight away that the phone hadn't been despatched. (Customer Services confirmed that it is not possible for a new customer to track an order online)

The info about the holding account is useful though - though I do question for a company of their size, why on earth should that be my problem, and is yet another thing that I would be less pissed off about if it was made clear the outset.

Oh well - will check my cred card again after the bank holiday

I've found tweeting companies works. I don't put the whole complaint in, but use www.twitlonger.com to give me extra space. Name of the company first, main bit of issue, and they'll still read it.

Use twitter and email important people - making sure you link them to your tweet.

Believe me, I work in a rather large organisation and there's nothing that gets people jumping faster than the threat of a customer complaint going viral!

Social media all the way! Make your complaint public and they will be on it very quickly. Works very time

I left them for tesco mobile as it was so much cheaper. They tried to persuade me to stay by suggesting a cheaper tariff but acknowledged it didn't compete with tesco when I mentioned their tariff got me a new phone.

What seriously annoyed me was that the day after I had this conversation and did cancel the contract they announced significant price increases. So they tried to get me to stay under false pretences. A slightly higher tariff on O2 would actually have been significantly more.

Rubbish company. I am much happier with Tesco mobile.