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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

POST FROM DD: AIBU?

69 replies

mumtoateen · 21/05/2014 17:07

Today in PSME, a girl had her hoodie on, and our cover teacher was shouting at her the whole lesson and being horrible and took her to the head at the end of the lesson. Another group of girls were filming themselves, singing loudly, playing on their phones, texting and filmed the 'argument' between the girl and the teacher. What did she do? Nothing.
Now forgive me, but I believe the second one is wrong, not the first. Am I unreasonable to report it to the school?

OP posts:

Nomama · 21/05/2014 17:40

Hoodies up in class is banned everywhere.... it shows a great disrespect for the teacher/class. Most schools and colleges ban all headgear indoors. I will not start a class if a student has headgear on. They either take it off or leave... consequences for the second choice.

So the hoodie wearer was the root cause of the disruption but all should have been dealt with. It does sound as though the class were horrid and the teacher lacked the confidence to tackle them all. There is a single rule of teacher preservation - don't ask if you don't expect them to do as you say! That doesn't mean don't manage your class, it just means don't issue demands....

Nomama · 21/05/2014 17:43

Sorry, pressed post too soon.

Don't report it, as you have no real idea what was going on or if there is any broader picture involved. BUT you could ask your DDs tutor or the pastoral lead if they are aware of any general disruption in these classes (believe me they will be). That may give them an opening to support the teacher without wielding a big stick.

If it were one of my staff and I was looking for a non threatening way to tackle this I would like a parental query - not complaint - to reach my desk.

WoTmania · 21/05/2014 17:44

I'm assuming that she didn't have the hoodie up (OP just says 'on') in which case, since there is nothing in the school rules, YWNBU to report the teacher

gordyslovesheep · 21/05/2014 17:49

If a member of staff requested she remove her hoodie (which is an outdoor coat not uniform) and she refused she was unreasonable

the girls disrupting the lesson and using phones were also in the wrong

it's not one or the other other ...it's both

Icimoi · 21/05/2014 18:21

I think the whole obsession with school uniform is ridiculous: if this teacher hadn't been obsessing about the hoodie, who knows, she'd have noticed the other two and dealt with them and maybe actually got some teaching done.

However, I suspect dd would be unwise to raise this with the school, if only because the girls she reported wouldn't be too impressed and may take it out on her.

itiswhatitiswhatitis · 21/05/2014 18:31

Honestly if your dd wasn't the hooded girl or the one involved in the phone nonsense then it's a total non issue sounds like the general day to day shit given by pupils to their teacher. Maybe the teacher wasn't managing the class well, maybe it was an off day, maybe hooded girl is generally a pain in the arse anyway who knows?

ravenAK · 21/05/2014 18:31

It took a whole lesson for the first girl to comply with an instruction by a member of staff to remove her hoody? Of course that merited a further consequence. In fact, it'd be a day in isolation where I work.

Girls at the back were also behaving appallingly, mind you.

I would hope the cover teacher will pass on a report to the usual class teacher who will deal with it on their return.

itiswhatitiswhatitis · 21/05/2014 18:32

Missed the bit about reporting to school. That would be ridiculous

CoffeeTea103 · 21/05/2014 18:33

I feel sorry for the poor teacher having to deal with a bunch of disrespectful girls, and then you get parents coming here trying to make the teacher out as being unreasonable.

3littlefrogs · 21/05/2014 18:36

They all sound ill mannered and disrespectful.
I would be embarrassed to admit that any of them were related to me.

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/05/2014 18:37

Icimoi
"I think the whole obsession with school uniform is ridiculous"

Its a school rule, what you think doesn't matter. The teacher is paid to enforce the school rules, your child should follow the rules that you send them to.

"if this teacher hadn't been obsessing about the hoodie, who knows, she'd have noticed the other two and dealt with them and maybe actually got some teaching done."

Unfortunately it doesn't work this way, it has been said on here that if you put a sanction in place you follow it through. The teacher backs down the kids will exploit it.

RhondaJean · 21/05/2014 18:37

This is why so many kids end up totally disengaged from school.

Of course it's ridiculous to spend the whole class making a huge and loud issue out of someone quietly wearing a no regulation item of clothing. The correct way to deal with that is a quiet word with the girl, not a public humiliation.

And meanwhile to be ignoring a bunch of other girls mucking about, making a racket and even worse filming the first incident? I sincere hope that video doesn't find itself on fb or YouTube to humiliate the first girl even more and I would seriously question that teachers classroom management ability.

If my dd was Thr one ?ith the hoody I would be complaining, yes, and very loudly. Not about her being told not to wear it but about appropriate ways to manage situations.

saintlyjimjams · 21/05/2014 18:39

Sounds as if a good chunk of the glass were being vile to the cover teacher.

saintlyjimjams · 21/05/2014 18:41

If my child was the one with the hoody I'd he telling her off for making life difficult for the cover teacher. And to just make her life easier & obey the rules. There are more constructive ways to rebel than give a supply teacher a headache.

ravenAK · 21/05/2014 18:45

How do you know that the initial request to remove the hoody was a 'huge and loud issue' rather than a 'quiet word'?

If I have a kid in one of my classes wearing a hoody/hat/headphones at the start of a lesson, I tell them pleasantly but in my normal voice that they need to remove it.

They then remove it.

Anyone persistently refusing would find herself removed from my classroom, hoody & all.

None of it says much for the school's behaviour management in general, tbh. It's SOP in my Dept. for one of us to look in at the start of any covered lesson & again partway through. As a result, the kids very rarely give our supply colleagues this sort of shit.

tiggytape · 21/05/2014 18:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RhondaJean · 21/05/2014 18:50

Raven, if you ask someone quietly, and then remove them for noncompliance, there is NEVER a huge and loud issue happening is there? And certainly not shouting by the teacher which dominated the lesson.

I strongly suspect it was easier for a supply teacher to focus on non compliance in one student than to deal with rowdiness in a group.

Thumbwitch · 21/05/2014 18:50

Was the girl wearing the hoody sitting there with the hood up? In which case she should of course have taken it down/off.
Did she in fact do so, and then the cover teacher continue to be unpleasant to her for the rest of the lesson? Or did she refuse to comply?

Flouting a teacher's authority is never a good idea, so if she refused to comply then of course it makes sense that she should be disciplined for it.

But the cover teacher should definitely have taken notice of the rest of the class's bad behaviour as well, not ignored it just because of one pupil! She'll need to learn better classroom management skills than that.

ravenAK · 21/05/2014 19:02

Absolutely RhondaJean, I do tend not to have shouting matches!

The teacher didn't deal with the issue appropriately - which would have entailed getting the girl removed from the lesson, at which point the others would almost certainly have settled.

However, if you are a supply teacher, unfamiliar with the school systems, & no-one is around to support you, then that's sometimes easier said than done...

It doesn't mean she was necessarily making a conscious decision to focus on Hoody Little Madam - who wasn't just quietly wearing a hoody, she was flatly refusing to follow an instruction given by a member of staff - & ignore a riot breaking out at the back!

As a parent, if I were complaining about anything, it would be that a cover teacher hadn't apparently had any back-up. & if Hoody Girl were any connection of mine, she'd be getting jolly short shrift from me.

MiaowTheCat · 21/05/2014 19:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PurplePidjin · 21/05/2014 19:04

YANBU, the disruptive behaviour (singing, phones etc) is far worse than simply wearing a non-uniform jumper.

Sounds like the teacher isn't that effective

What is your dd suggesting she does about it, OP?

CoffeeTea103 · 21/05/2014 19:07

I wonder if the hoodie girl is actually making up the rest

Nomama · 21/05/2014 19:10

Na, coffee. Tis all just business as usual for cover teachers. I have had to rescue a few in my time (and I am in FE!).

Once a class gets a taste for blood they can go feral in seconds. The group psyche has absolutely no shame.

To my own shame I have vague recollections of such crap when I was a kid - I bet the teachers involved have very clear recollections!

Igggi · 21/05/2014 19:13

Both were wrong. If girl 1 had obeyed the teacher the rest would be less likely to have kicked off.
HTH.

ravenAK · 21/05/2014 19:13

But PurplePidjin, yes, wearing a non-uniform jumper isn't a big deal at all. Refusing to comply with any reasonable instruction from a member of staff, OTOH, is.

Miaow is right - although again that particular routine tends to pall if the kids know that any cover lesson is likely to be dropped-in on & miscreants dealt with promptly by a permanent member of staff.

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