To think the concept of pledging your virginity to your father is creepy as hell?

[Sigyn]

Purity balls and the quiverfull movement so beloved of the Christian fundamentalist right in America.

Its obviously regressive as hell. Your sexuality is yours to control. It has nothing to do with your dad in any way shape or form.

But even aside from that-just...eeew. Sorry.

Can anyone explain to me how the concept of pledging your sexuality to your father for safekeeping is not just icky?

Just a mass thing at a christian camp, with a ring as a reminder. Was in America obvs. So creepy!

Yeah, those are really common here. I went to a retreat where they had this girl our age give a talk about how she regretted losing her virginity. She was crying and then they did a ceremony where she was a born again virgin. As a kid I was laughing at the idea of her being a "born again virgin", as an adult that's very heartbreaking she was that upset over a consensual act and had to be shamed in front of a large group of peers.

The problem isn't encouraging kids to save it for later. It's that the kids just scoff, and have unprotected sex. Or they decide that anal and oral are ok as long as you avoid PIV sex, and end up confused when they get STDs.

Yes miggsie, I agree there is a weird fascination with female virginity in many cultures. My friend's first sexual partner (about 25 years ago) went on at length that he loved the fact she was a virgin prior to him. He likened her to a jar of jam that hadn't had a buttery knife breaking the surface .

The father-daughter aspect makes this even worse though. I can only imagine that the fathers who go along with this have very controlling personalities, or is it a compulsory part of the religion?

I would be stunned if, in 5 or 10 years, we didn't start getting loads of stories of abuse coming out of the purity movement. And that's just . Any movement that tells kids that they are not the ones in charge of their bodies is just going to be a breeding ground for abuse. Any movement that gives men this much power over women and female children is going to be a breeding ground for abuse. Any movement that takes this to a new level by explicitly putting fathers in charge of their daughters sexuality-well what on earth kind of man is that going to attract?

Even if there isn't abuse within the movement, by not giving kids agency over their sexuality they are making them absolutely ripe for abuse by others, especially those in power.

It is the very opposite of what any decent dad wants his daughter to know, IMO.

I've never understood the preferring a virgin thing.

Who the hell prefers a sexual partner not to really know what they are doing?

I can kind of see it if you are both inexperienced. Discovering it all together and suchlike. But to prefer a virgin when you yourself have had some experience-wtf is that all about?

I should add that jam jar bloke was an utter meat head who had no culture whatsoever .

Squoosh while I do applaud the sentiments behind that father's thinking, in some way it also makes me cringe a bit. I would've been embarrassed and uncomfortable if my dad had offered any opinion on my sex life, whether current or putative (disclaimer: I haven't got time to read full article, just the bit you quoted).

Wow, thanks for introducing me to Rapture Ready. I may be gone some time...

Oh God Margot I'd rather chew my own eyeballs than have my Dad tell me he hoped I was having lots of good sex! But I applaud this dad for not doing that 'jokey' knuckle cracking thing that so many men pretend to do when talking of their daughter's boyfriend.

I love the tagline of Rapture Ready

"Rapture resources for the end times"

God it's awful, I agree, it is something you do for yourself not for anyone else. It goes back to the patriarchal family, where a girl was the possession of her father, then on her wedding day handed to her husband to be by her father.

Its the end times!

Quick, lay in beets and betroth your daughter to her dad!

well it worked for Lot

(I don't know how to spell betroth / betrothe. Who knew? I can spell most things... . I guess I've never had to write that word before...)

The cracks are already beginning to show re: abuse/the purity movement. One of the biggest evangelical organisations, Vision Forum, which was all about the daddy as head of house, purity, stay at home daughter thing- they've recently folded, after one of their founding members, Doug Phillips, was accused of abusing a teenage girl he was mentoring.

I reckon it'll be the first of many revelations to come. Not surprising really.

The stay at home daughter thing is just awful.

For me, the whole quiverful childrearing thing is a serious feminist issue.

I'm not saying its quite the same, or quite as extreme necessarily. But in terms of the thought processes involved, the repression, the belief that men have a right to control a woman's body and the idea that iif a woman displays any sexuality at all then rape is an appropriate and/or understandable response by a man, its remarkably similar to the FGM movement.

And of course, keeping a woman pregnant or childrearing for years is a pretty well known form of domestic abuse/control

I think in certain geographical areas of the US this is not that 'underground', actually

I have lived in the US South --the "Bible Belt" most of my life. Purity balls are considered extreme, and I don't know any Christian conservatives who approve of them. Christian conservatism and Christian fundamentalism are not the same thing. That being said, there are many strains in both that are anathema to women's and children's rights.

it makes me cringe. It was in Huffington Post a bit back, said that the girls "marry" their dads and symbolically give them their virginity. How strange. Makes me want to vomit.

Squoosh thank God for that - I thought you were advocating cosy little father-daughter chats about her burgeoning sexuality and first shag .

Repulsive idea (and the purity ball idea in general is just a tacky presentation rip-off).

I honestly don't understand why any parent would want to be so deeply involved with their child's sex life. I'm sure that my DF doesn't want the visuals of my sex life any more than I want to imagine his...

Controlling, creepy and just plain wrong. It reinforces the idea that women are possessions that can be "spoilt" if touched.

There are places in America and Canada where this is quite mainstream. I find it very peculiar myself.

Beyond weird but nature will have its way. Remember in Clochemerle when one of the Children of Mary gets upduffed?

Here's a doc I watched some years ago about this movement - topdocumentaryfilms.com/virgin-daughters/

Agree it's horribly creepy and controlling. There's a bit in the doc with a father and daughter, the daughter is talking to the camera while the father just stares at her all the while she's talking without even glancing at the camera occasionally- really, really peculiar.

Don't like it at all. I saw some programme on this subject and the dads actually went on 'dates' with the daughters...

Some people / societies value virginity more than others, I suppose.

Re. the Duggers - they seem a lovely family and the kids are cute, but OMG the dresses those poor girls have to wear! They are fugly as hell! And all the boys have the same haircut and all the girls have long hair. I suppose it's accordance with their beliefs, but I do feel sad for the girls that they don't get to wear nice clothes.

When the eldest Dugger son got married (to a girl he hadn't even kissed, let alone anything else), Mr Duggar gave him a few books about how to have sex... Cringe!

What is the stay at home daughter movement?

It's gross beyond gross.

It just makes me cringe. The idea that anyone other than me has a choice over my/their sexuality. And as someone said above where are the Mother/Son pledges? Hmmmm?

To me if it is really a virgin thing then why are the boys held to a different level? Who are the boys sleeping with? Or is there am automatic assumption that boys are good?