Bump at nursery

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

I have a 17 month old DS and a 17 week old D D

I'm a stay at home parent so DS has never been in any child care before

He's a sociable little chap so to allow me to spend a bit of one to one time with DD, we decided to send him to nursery for a Tuesday and a Friday afternoon. We found one nursery that had an outstanding ofsted rating plus various friends' children go and they rate it

He's had two settling in sessions and seemed pretty happy so today was his first half day. However, the following has happened and I need to know how to handle -

1. When I picked up DS he clearly had a mark turning into a bruise under his eye and another one on his cheek. I firstly thought the marks were paint and his face was also a bit dirty so couldn't see absolutely. However, once I got him into the car and was doing up his car seat, it was quite obvious.

Nobody said anything to me about any accident and nothing was recorded in his book - I was told that if there was any bump eye, they took it very seriously and called parents etc. I understand that accidents happen but I'm really worried that no one seemed to have noticed what happened and/or told me

1. When we went to look around, we were told that DS would basically pick his key worker as they would assign who he gravitated to. However, at the settling in session, he was just assigned one. She seemed nice enough so I just let it go. However, she wasn't there today. I asked where she was and was told that she wasn't there but no one else seemed to take responsibility for standing in - I now feel really shit for leaving him. When I left him, he seemed perfectly happy. However, I'm now thinking that obviously the lack of some one supervising him could have lead to the accident/none recording. Plus, it was his first proper day so surely the key worker is even more important?

1. When you arrive, you're buzzed in. I went into the room and picked up DS. I was allowed to leave with him, despite having met none of the workers in the room. None of them knew me. Am I being paranoid? I'm not comfortable with this as I feel that anyone could have come in and taken DS. The person who I spoke to when I dropped him off wasn't there so two nursery nurses whom I had never met before, let me take DS away

I've taken a photo of DS' face and emailed the nursery tonight asking for a discussion tomorrow. DH is saying that we need to give then a chance to explain but if we're not happy then DS can't go back. However, I'm not very sure what they can say - particularly about the bit noticing the bump

For the avoidance of doubt, I absolutely understand that children get bumps. My primary concern is the failure to notify/notice

I may also be worrying excessively but DS is normally a great sleeper and goes happily into his cot at 7 for a 12 hour sleep. However, tonight he was very unsettled and I couldn't get him to sleep til 9pm

This is not helping my jangled nerves!

This doesn't sound great, to be honest. When my DDs were in nursery, there was always a note if they had a bump - even if it had happened out of sight, as it sometimes does. They also had a key worker and a backup and that was a permanent arrangement which lasted from when they started until they left to go to school. I wouldn't be happy about the pickup arrangements either, that's a safeguarding issue and probably worthy of a call to OFSTED.

Ok - right

How do I handle this? I'm having the meeting tomorrow, hopefully

I just can't imagine what they could say that is going to make me feel this is OK. I just don't feel that I can give second chances as I just don't actually trust them now

If I do decide that DS can keep going, should I still contact ofsted? If I don't decide he should keep going, I think I definitely will

1. if it's defintely a bruise then it should have been noticed, and explained to you how he came by it. Bad bruising should be properly recorded
2. sounds odd. Key workers should be assigned (possibly later altered if he is showing a preference, but it's too early for that)
3. if there was no-one (in the room or staffing the door) who knew you this simply should not have happened. They do not know him well enough to know whether he'd kick up a fuss with a stranger. Now, it's possible from your demeanour that it was obvious you belonged together. But did you not sign him out and they check that the signatures matched?

I think either you feel confident and comfortable with a particular childcare environment or you don't. You don't sound confident that they are keeping him safe and happy, so I would personally not waste too much time having discussions with them (given that he's only been there a couple of times) and look elsewhere. Maybe think about a childminder who has other charges a similar age or who goes to local playgroups where he can mix? Or another nursery if you prefer that type of setting.

The Ofsted rating doesn't matter, and other people's recommendations aren't necessarily relevant to you either - we visited a nursery that was highly recommended by a good friend (and someone whom I would trust 100% to look after my children) but I just got a negative vibe about it and would never have sent my DCs there. I would just rely on your gut with this one. You're not happy with it so don't send him there any more.

Re the signatures - I did sign him out. But I was holding FS with my right hand/arm. I had to sign with my left arm and made a joke bad one about having to sign with a cross. I only managed to scrawl my two initials. The person I was speaking to made a joke (I hope) about "accepting anything".

To be honest, I had kind of clocked DS' face and just wanted to get out and have a look at it

I don't think they can say anything that would make it OK either, to be honest. But you sound very fair-minded so here's what I woudl ask:

• Who is DS's keyworker? Is there a backup when that keyworker is not around and how are they facilitating forming a bond? Mention that he is at a peak age for separation anxiety and you want to make sure he settles in well as that will be better for him and for the staff.

• Ask to see their policy on recording accidents and bumps. Mention the bruise on your DC's face and that you were surprised not to have received an accident notification for it.

• Ask what their policy is for verifying the identity of people picking up DCs. Describe exactly what happened - that you were buzzed in and allowed to take a child despite the staff not having seen you before. Ask how they brief staff on handing DC over to people they have not met before - is there a description of you, a list of approved people who can collect?

Keep it all firm, polite and factual. And start looking for another nursery. If you don't keep your DS there, definitely contact OFSTED. Nurseries can and do do better than this - the one my DDs went to certainly did.

Yes - I've pretty much decided that I need to look for another nursery

I'm trying to be very calm but frankly this is like my worst nightmare - but loads of people told me not to be daft/nurseries have to function to very high standards etc. I don't actually really want DS to go to nursery etc. it's just that I'm conscious that DD really isn't getting much state tun and it's pretty tiring looking after both of them do DH thought it would give me a break and let DS enjoy a different environment

Definitely inform OFSTED. Failing to thoroughly check who is picking up a child is serious. I worked on reception in a children's centre with a nursery and had to know all the faces otherwise they weren't allowed in and I would've been in deep trouble had I just buzzed them in. Who buzzed you in? And did they check your identity?

I have met the person who buzzed me in, to be fair. However, I had t met the people in the room who handed DS over.

I actually feel quite sick about this as DS is a friendly little soul and would happily go off with anyone who was kind to him

I feel really terrible for leaving him today without checking the key worker

However, I hadn't met the people in the room who handed DS over.

Is that how it works then? Is it assumed that if you've been buzzed in that you are a parent? By the workers in the room? Is that why they let me take him?

Where I worked they would never assume that. They would pop out to see me or ring on the intercom to check. Usually if it was a new parent I would escort them to the room and introduce them to the nursery staff if I knew they may not be familiar.

Re the accident, it should be recorded and reported to you regardless of whether his keyworker was there. And he should've (and probably was) being properly supervised by whatever staff were there.

If you want him home with you then go back to that. Things should get easier now your baby is bigger and its summer so you can get out and about. Do you go to any playgroups etc?

We go to a music class once a week and meet friends a couple of times a week too

Nct meets up are hard as they are in coffee shops and DS isn't too keen to stay in the pram, understandably. We normally meet on a Tuesday, hence him going to nursery on a Tuesday and Friday afternoon

I've been escorted to the room once - by the manager on the first day. Bar that, I've just walked in (once buzzed in).

The bump and being allowed to take him both sound poor.

At 17 months there is very little chance that he won't have made a fuss getting a bump like that. Normal procedure seems to be to have an accident form in completed in duplicate that you then sign and take one copy with you.

I've had new nursery staff look at me through the door and go to get one of the other staff because they don't recognise me. They often apologise for not letting me in, but I actually like it when this happens as it demonstrates to me that they won't let people they don't know in.

The keyworker thing is less clear cut. I'm not sure what type of nursery it is, but some are open from 7.30 -6.30, so you can't expect all of the staff to be there all of the time. Staff also take holidays. Keyworkers won't follow your child round the room keeping an eye on them - they might have 8 key children at different times in the week and perhaps 3 at the same time, going in different directions. It is reasonable to expect a keyworker to build a rapport with your child and they will complete observations of your child and should ensure that their development needs are met. DD has had about 6 keyworkers across 2 nurseries. They have ranged from fantastic to poor (I asked to have that one changed). In her current nursery, I am not sure that she would even be able to tell you who her keyworker is, but that is because she has a great relationship with all of the staff.

Hello,

Please trust your instincts on this one. I had something very similar with my little one. Marks on body, they couldn't explain how it had happened so obviously not watching properly. Tried to say my child had done it to himself nut it was on his back, he couldn't have reached it. My child's behaviour suddenly changed, only wanted to be with me not Dad or anyone else, was terrified of sleeping in a travel cot (no problems before).

We removed my little one after 3 sessions. Moved to a childminder no further problems with little one, no upset or anything.

This was an outstanding nursery, the best of numerous ones I'd looked at and researched. My biggest regret was leaving little one there on the third session because I thought I was being PFB when I should have trusted my gut instinct.

Good luck x

Yeap. And from what I read in another post, good OFSTED ratings for nurseries don't seem to be a reliable basis for judging a nursery.

This is all really useful

Re rife key worker. I absurdly do not expect it to be the sane person

However. I would like to know who the key worker will be when the original one isn't there. Particularly when he's just started

It's a good thing you don't have a crazy ex who wants to take your kid, they could just walk right out with him, couldn't they?

I'd bring it up if nothing else for the other kids safety because you don't know if they have that situation where someone else dangerous could walk off with them.

I used daycare in the US where things are set up a little differently. However, we had all incidents reported to us but then they missed the huge bruise on her toe. DD never went back. Both DC are now looked after during the day by our neighbour. It is a far better arrangement. I get text messages during the day if something is up or they are doing something fun.

I purposely didn't choose an OFSTED outstanding nursery. I work in a school and have no faith that they actually know what they are talking about. Besides, if a nursery has time to jump through all of ofsted's hoops, they probably don't have time to actually play with the kids. I chose on gut feeling, and whenever I turn up to collect my daughter she is being cuddled or played with, the workers always have their hands full (literally).

They also use a buddy key worker system which I think is quite common. Basically each key worker is assigned a buddy, and the buddy will take responsibility whenever the main key worker isn't there (off sick, holiday, different shift etc).

They also have a fingerprint scanner- only people with registered fingerprints are allowed in to collect children. If I want someone who hasn't got a registered fingerprint to collect my daughter, I need to inform the nursery, provide a photo of the person and their full name, and leave a password. That way the nursery can check the person taking my daughter is the one I intended. Even if someone who has collected my daughter before came, they wouldn't let her go unless I had OKed it.

When my daughter has had bumps/scrapes, even if they didn't see how it happened there has been a note and explanation of when they noticed it and what they did to treat it.

The sleeping is probably separation anxiety due to the age of your DS- my daughter has been exactly the same (started back at nursery after a break, she's a couple of months older than your DS) so that on it's own wouldn't bother me. All the rest of it would though!

if you use a childminder you will have the same "keyworker" every day. They will also be the one to open the door to you every day and will know who you are!
CM's combine a home environment, lower ratios with lots of socialisation at playgroups etc.

DS's nursery have a strict system of meeting parents at the door and taking them through to baby room. DS is 17m, same as yours OP.
Every time he has had a bump he's had a letter sent home, a phone call at the time and I've had to sign a form when picking him up.
If he's to be picked up by anyone else they have to be on my authorised list and have my chosen password to get in.
His key worker I'm not really so fussed about as there as are only 3 staff in there anyway and they're all lovely.

You defo need to get to the bottom of these issues and like other PPs have said, when you find the right place for you, you just know - regardless of who likes it, doesn't etc - it'll just feel right fir you.

good luck getting answers.

I've got a meeting at 3:20 today so will report back

Note the point re ofsted - however, we thought it was an indicator that proper policies and procedures are in place, as well as it being part of a chain. The personal recommendations from friends were useful too

I'm going to go and have a look at other nurseries. I need to look into child minders and get my head round how they are regulated. I have to say, I've been slightly put off by seeing some at our local soft play who don't seem to be keeping an eye in the children at all - I mean the little ines, like DS, who need to be supervised. However, I do acknowledge that that may very well not be the norm

Childminders are regulated the same as nurseries.
Ofsted reg. First aid, inspected, food hygiene , eyfs etc
Find a decent one and they provide a much more personal service for little ones.
Pm me if you want some details of how we work and what uou should look for when choosing one

If you're not comfortable with the nursery I would remove him. If you are a SAHM parent there doesn't seem much point in using childcare at all if it will cause angst. Perhaps it would be better to wait until he is a bit older and more able to tell you whether he has had a nice day or not.