To think that a lot of what mums are expected to do is skilled and difficult?

[wol1968]

I don't just mean the emotional, social, negotiating, dealing-with-people sort of stuff that everyone gets wrong at some point, especially the ones who think they're doing it right. I mean the technically tricky, proper difficult things that you actually have to be shown how to do at some point. For instance, I was reading the headlice thread the other day and was at how judgey a few posters were and how dismissive they were of the very real difficulties of wet-combing nits out of Afro hair belonging to wriggly DCs who are probably yelling in pain. I hate hair. I'm no good at it and always manage to pull and tug, and every style I do falls out in 10 seconds flat. I have done my DD's ballet bun in the past, but she prefers to do her hair herself now.

Similarly with cooking. I'm an OK cook but know a fair few people who are a danger around knives and heat and will never really master a meal. And yet it's sort of expected that we should be able to do this with no real training. And what about spotting possible health issues, dealing with illness in others, knowing when to call in the professionals? Timetabling and admin? It's not all ' not very common at all actually sense' stuff. Where do you learn it?

Wow, this thread is full of passive aggressive smilies isn't it?

I think that the difference between skills you need at work and those you need to be a parent is that at work you are generally given the time and space to practise them, whereas as a parent you often have to learn three new skills simultaneously and immediately. And you don't get an end of year review to show off about them.

I agree with Jinsei that it depends very much on your existing skillset. And perhaps also your age? I was in my mid-30s when I started my family so I'd already been fending for myself for nearly 2 decades.

Experiences at work must make a difference too. If you have the type of role where you are able to concentrate on one task until it is completed then I can see the multi-tasking required at home might come as a bit of a shock.

I disagree plantsitter. As a parent, you can do things at your own pace generally, and (at least when your child is small) nobody is really judging your performance - or at least, nobody who actually matters! Having said that, I haven't experienced parenthood as a major learning curve anyway, perhaps because I was already used to dealing with kids and young people.

In the workplace, on the other hand, I've always been thrown in at the deep end and haven't ever really been given the time or space to practise stuff - it has always been a case of sink or swim. However, I agree that you do at least get an appraisal each year. As parents, I guess we have to wait until our kids have grown up before we'll know if we did a good job!!

Perhaps Jinsei your job needed similar skills you need to be a parent and so you didn't need to learn them when you became one.

I was used to multitasking etc in my job - in fact it sounds somewhat similar to yours - but I found that I did feel judged a lot of the time when I became a mum, partly because there were so many people around who had experience of parenting and knew what to do. And although my job was often incredibly stressful I never experienced that continual 'emergency stations' quality that seems to pervade life with small children.

Hehe - I wish plantsitter! I find the reality is having to learn new skills and put them into action whilst still managing all of the existing workload and timescales - the downside of working in a career where the ground shifts daily whilst the axe of swingeing financial cuts swings above our heads! I find there is more time and leeway at home to learn new skills, but everyone will have different experiences.

Perhaps Jinsei your job needed similar skills you need to be a parent and so you didn't need to learn them when you became one.

Yes, that was my point really - that lots of people will have acquired the skills needed as a parent before they have kids anyway. Certainly, that's how I feel.

As for feeling judged, I guess that's partly a confidence thing. People do judge, of course, but I was never really that bothered - I just went with my instincts. However, I appreciate that I was lucky to have a very supportive family. I know that some people are constantly having to defend their parenting choices to extended family, and that must be a bit isolating.

Going from zero to one child was a steep learning curve on the childcare front but I just learnt on the job - googled, mn, read books. By the time I got no.2, it was juggling. Then childcare, logistics, schools, activities, playdates, parties.

It is like my work life where I learn on the job just more repetitive and duller at home. I love being under pressure but I don't like the constant tug of war at home to no real end. Groundhog day.

It's life. Dh and I just get on with it.

Lots of these things I learnt from my parents, as others have said, lots of them are life skills. I was amazed when I was a young adult, that lots of people hadn't been taught this stuff by their parents.

So I would turn the question round:

What skills do you think you dcs should learn before they are 18?
And how are you going about teaching them?

As part of my answer to those 2 questions, my kids have to help round the house, learn to look after their things, learn self hygiene and we cook together. They don't always do these things willingly !

What skills do you think you dcs should learn before they are 18? And how are you going about teaching them?

Now that's an interesting question!! :) There are so many skills I want dd to master!! This isn't an exhaustive list, but here are a few!

Basic life skills - including cooking, cleaning, budgeting, simple sewing, simple DIY, first aid, driving, swimming, cycling etc.

Self-management skills - self-awareness, how to self-motivate, problem-solving skills, confidence, resilience in the face of challenges, time management & prioritisation, general organisational skills etc

Interpersonal skills - general communication skills, both in speech and in writing, empathy and sensitivity to others, confidence in talking to people of all ages, backgrounds, cultures etc, ability to work in a team, leadership skills etc

Thinking skills - how to think critically, logically and analytically, developing creativity, learning how to learn.

There are lots more! :) As for what we're doing to help develop these skills, that would take a long time to answer, but it is something I actively consider. I often interview young people and see huge differences in their skill sets and self-awareness, so I don't think you can just leave stuff to chance. Having said that, I do think a lot of skills are acquired naturally through a full and enriching life, so a lot of it is about providing opportunities and encouraging kids to take them!

That's a great post Jinsei.
I like your lists.

I agree that you can't just leave it to chance, but my main tool is, as you said, a full and enriching life.

I still get them to empty the dishwasher though

Me too. Someone's got to do it!

YANBU, I find myself under intense pressure to produce birthday cakes to professional standards rather than plain sponge. For food edible and vaguely nutritious but perfectly nutritionally balanced to the nth degree and presented in a fun way otherwise you're a crap mum. School dressing up costumes have to be made with less than 15 hrs notice (I work until 10) when all your local shops are closed so improvisation must be taken to a new level. You then have to function the next day with hardly any sleep. Produce for bake sales with same notice. Projects for homework must be completed to the skill level of an architect, engineer, artist as appropriate or your dc will get into trouble. (I'm especially crap at this I make dd do her own homework).

Greta post Jinsei
Op I take issue with the thread title -why just Mums ?

Greta great!

Thanks for all the replies!

I did think about putting 'parents' instead of 'mums' but I left it, because IME (feel free to disagree, this is AIBU after all ) dads are generally given a lot more leeway and a lot less judgement in some of these things. They're more likely to be treated sympathetically if the Victorian costume is a mishmash of rags or the cake-sale cakes are supermarket jobs with readymade icing smeared on top for decoration. And there is generally a LOT more consideration for the time demands of their usually FT jobs. I don't think that they can't do housework, sewing, cooking etc., I just find that when they can it's 'Wow!' whereas for a mum it's 'Yeah, so...?'

Interesting distinction. I did feel when I was writing my post that the first category of stuff which I feel is trial and error is more the stuff that "mums" tend to be doing, or are thought to be "should be" doing, whereas the second category, which is the stuff I feel is difficult and/or skilled is the stuff that both mums and dads are (generally assumed to be) doing.

I agree, society places more pressure on Mum's than Dads. It's always the mum who's blamed when society decides it's not good enough. IME even when there's a stay at home dad.