to think that 100% of MNers probably avoid tax?

[TravellingToad]

Just watching a frustrating debate on TV about a man who has legally taken advantage of a loophole permitted by the government in order to reduce his tax bill. Some people in the debate are on their high horse.

Now it occurs to me that unless you voluntarily hand back your tax allowance (roughly £10,000 per person) you are in no position to squawk about other people avoiding tax.

The £10,000 tax allowance is a legal tax avoidance loophole permitted by the government that means that you can assign £10,000 a year of your income and pay NO tax on it. 99.9% of people i'm sure grab it with open arms.

Anyone here voluntarily pay the tax instead of accepting the avoidance scheme? Anyone of you phone your accountant and say "I don't want to use that loophole thanks please donate the tax to the government instead" No? thought not.

I expect i'm about to get leapt on now with cries of "oh its so different though because he's so rich and I only earn £20k a year" but where do you draw the line? To the homeless person on the street you are rich beyond their wildest dreams, just as gary barlow seems to you. At what point does it become one rule for you and one for anyone richer than you?

Let the slaughter begin!

To get to the facts of the GB case, an individual can only claim sideways loss relief (relief against other types of income) if the business that makes the loss was being operated on a commercial basis, with the view to realisation of profit. The Partnerships clearly were not being operated with a view to profit, therefore the loss should not have been claimed.

The law is very clear about this, and correctly the courts found that the scheme failed. I would class this as a tax evasion scheme.

Back to the OP, you can't hand back your tax allowance, it is not optional. The money would sit in your account at HMRC, and the government would not be allowed to use it. You could donate it to charity if you wanted, but the government is not a charity, Legally, they are only allowed to collect the correct amount of tax.

The same applies to tax. People who pay tax are entitled to do everything they legally can to decrease their bill. It's irrelevant whether it's "fair", they don't make the rules, it's up to the people who make the rules to make them fairer.

I'll quote Richard Murphy again, because this argument is rubbish.

Governments don’t create loopholes. They never have and will. But all words have uncertain meaning and when you have a great many words you end up with uncertain outcomes. The immoral seek to abuse that uncertainty to free-ride the tax system at cost to the rest of society. But that’s not government’s fault. That’s the fault of the avoider and those who help them.

See more at: www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2012/12/10/a-tax-avoidance-q-a/#sthash.2LwYha7m.dpuf

No I don't need to pay tax in the UK but I do. i wish i could nominate the NHS as my charity of choice because i think it great.

I avoid paying tax, in fact on over 200k we don't pay a bean. That is because I will not donate money to a country that is so pathetic that people on a forum think the NHS is a "charity".

My first post was deleted by MNHQ on the grounds of being a personal attack. Because I used the acronym 'OP' for 'Original Post', it was MNHQ's belief that I meant 'Original Poster'. Which would, indeed, have been a personal attack. So I will make it clear that my post was actually:

This is a terminally stupid and ignorant original post

I choose tax free countries and good packages with healthcare that isn't a charity. Leaving the shit system is hardly parasitic

I love the way no-one's allowed to recognise when rich people are greedy, because that's the politics of envy

And envy must be the only motive for recognising greed, right?

no
i dont think that at any point in my life i set up a business designed to make no money at all so i could avoid paying tax
and instead ask lots of poor people to donate their post tax salary to charities that might not exist if govts had more tax to spend
no
havent done either of those things

"envy must be the only motive for recognising greed"

I think, if there's any envy, it's that those of us who are saddled with rigid PAYE simply don't have the opportunity to reduce our tax bills by much even if we wanted to.

I would rather be rich than post puke inducing crap like "Aibu to love paying tax?" The trouble is with all of these lefty 6th form arguments is that it makes me want to poke my tongue out and be silly.

I wouldn't say I love paying tax, Theodorous, but I am happy to do so. I think it is a civilised way to ensure that a country can take care of its citizens, vulnerable or not. I don't recognise that as 'sixth form' - are you suggesting that everyone is moral until they grow up? Weird. I am quite grown up (I'll be 50 later in the year) and still think tax is a fundamentally good system. Needs some work, maybe, but fundamentally OK.
Lefty though - yup. And proud of it. You use it as though it were a synonym for stupid. It really isn't.

Of course it isn't and happy birthday in advance. I just don't think people are being looked after. And some other threads really are very smug indeed.

The personal allowance above £100k is reduced by £1 for every £2 of income above the £100,000 limit. Not by £2 for every £1 of income above £100k

"Has anyone suggested that those hating on the rich (who pay more in tax than almost all of us could dream of ever having in the first place) are not allowed their opinions?"

Hating on the rich? That's their opinions?

They're allowed their opinions, as long as those opinions can be distorted, misrepresented and designated as hatred or envy, rather than a moral or political position.

And of course, accusing people who recognise greed when they see it of envy or hatred, means that we're not talking about the greed anymore. Win-win.

Wouldn't a flat tax make so much sense?

I think so countess a flat tax would be genuinely FAIR. Everyone paying the same percentage. Rich people still pay more, poor people still pay less. Many many countries have a flat rate tax system and it works fine.