Hoarding!

[struggling100]

This isn't really an AIBU, but I wasn't sure where to put it! It's more a subjective question: when does 'owning a lot of stuff' but being broadly normal become 'hoarding'? And if someone is a hoarder, how should you raise it as an issue? To put this in context - I am pretty clean and I freak out if things aren't organized, so I am not in a position to trust my own judgement on this, hence asking a question of you all!

Anyway, my inlaws have a house full of stuff: they are not as bad as the houses you see on TV that are full of cockroaches, but their front room has about 15 side tables for two people, their conservatory is full of old magazines and boxes of junk, and they have just spent an inordinate amount of money building a second kitchen, because there wasn't space in the old one to store the 60 old mugs, the 100 old glasses, the dozens of ancient pans etc. etc. etc. Their loft is absolutely packed to the gills. Absolutely every object for them has some kind of sentimental connotation that means it is valuable and CANNOT be done without.

All fair enough, right? But the problem is: I think their behaviour is getting worse, and I don't know whether DH and I should say something. They are adding things to the house constantly, without ever getting rid of anything. The space is getting increasingly packed. To make matters worse, GF-in-law died a few months back, and I can see them being unable to get rid of any of his belongings too, which will really create a crisis. (They are not inclined to give things away for free or to charity, despite being very wealthy).

At what point can you make a call and say 'Actually, this has gone beyond 'normal' and 'healthy'', when there isn't any real non-subjective criterion for 'normal' and 'healthy' in these cases? They are entitled to live however they want and I absolutely don't want to impose my way of life and standards on them. On the other hand, I am worried that the place is becoming a fire risk, and that FIL (who has quite serious mobility problems) is moving around less than he might because it is too difficult to navigate around the endless stuff. But maybe this is just me?

One option that has occurred to me is to help them go through things, and take car loads away on the basis that they will give things to us that they might otherwise stack up in their overcrowded spare rooms, and then take them straight to a charity shop. But it feels a bit like lying to them, and I am not sure whether that is right.

Help!

I'm sorry I don't have any advice but didn't want to read and run.

What does your DH think about it all? Is there any other siblings you and You DH could talk too and maybe sort this out as a team?

It's tricky - if they are happy and there is no risk to their health then it might be hard to justify the potential for hurting their feelings by suggesting anything drastic. Have they shown any interest in sorting things out or getting rid of some stuff?

I wouldn't want to take things on the pretence that you want or need them unless you can be SURE that they won't come over and ask where they are. Instead, could you start to come up with good causes which could benefit from specific types of stuff? E.g. collecting magazines for a local school to do paper mache and collages, a crockery smashing stall at a local fete which wants donations of mugs etc, a local shelter that needs donations of clothes/blankets anything else. It might also be easy to pre-empt the problem with the GFIL's belongings by offering to go over and help them sort through his things, stating up front that you can take things straight to the charity shop/ebay them/put them on freecycle etc.

Is it also worth considering other motivating factors such as selling stuff on ebay to raise some extra money for x, y or z or saying that you are worried about your kids (if you have any) knocking things over on themselves etc. Addressing the issue as a side-effect of achieving something else might be a less confrontational approach.

It sounds like you have their best interests at heart, so you don't want to risk alienating of upsetting them by going in too strong. Does your husband worry about them?

My mum has loads of clutter. I keep trying to convince her that she doesn't need it but she insists that's he does. She is a complete hoarder. Her house is clean and tidy and she has a place for all her stuff but most of it is just dust collecting junk. She has 4 cabinets crammed with ornaments, glasses and bits of tat. As an example: She has the best glasses in one cabinet, the next best glasses in another cabinet, the occasional use glasses in another cabinet and the everyday glasses in the kitchen cupboard.
I can't get my head around it and wish I could just put it all in my car and take it to the nearest charity shop. She isn't anything like the hoarders on the tv, but she is a hoarder nonetheless.
I keep trying to convince her to get rid of some of the stuff because she needs to move to a smaller house soon, but she doesn't believe that any of it is unnecessary.
I feel your pain.

It definitely sounds like they are hoarding. I mean, a second kitchen?! I think it's hoarding when you're keeping things that you really don't need or have a sentimental attachment to. Like, keeping one mug because it says "worlds best dad" an was a Father's Day gift is different to keeping one that says "east orient chinese" and was clearly a freebie from the local all you can eat!!!

I wouldn't recommend you taking their stuff and going straight to a charity shop. It's dishonest and unfair and to be honest, if they don't realise it's a problem them they'll just be bringing more stuff in to the house in the space of the stuff you took.

I would recommend having a real decent conversation about it, letting them know you're worried about fire risk / mobility issues. They might not realise it themselves!

my mum was a hoarder of 'stuff' (clothes newspapers and ornaments) when she passed away I would say that 80% of it went to the charity shop, 19% to the tip and 1% was kept ,I think the charity shop were sick of seeing us in the end ;) it made me realise that things I have kept that are important to me are just that ,they arent important to anyone else so I had a major clearout after that

Thank you all for some really helpful suggestions! It is good to know I'm not the only one who freaks out a little about this! Also thanks to all those who advise against taking things on false pretences - DH thinks it would work, but I feel uncomfortable!

The rest of the family are all in agreement: DH thinks they are hoarders, and BIL and his partner (who have a gorgeous place) agree and have actually tried to raise the subject before when FIL commented that the lounge was 'spacious' (!) When BIL said it would be, if it were not for the 50 coasters and 16 tables, it did not go down very well.

The almost farcical irony of the situation is that they think of themselves as spiritual Scandivanians, and in amongst the clutter are fabulous pieces of Danish design that get completely lost underneath chintzy Victorian cushions, cross-stitched monstrosities, piles of magazines, and naff tat from holidays. (I swear to God, I am going to write a play about them one day.)

I think the idea of giving to charity is a no-go. It is just a mental block to them. I don't understand this in a couple who lack for nothing, but they really struggle just to give things away for free.

My mum is in a similar league. It's a cause that you can only make progress on if they want to change, the same as other complusive behaviour. In my mum's case it triggers from having moved abruptly several times in her life leaving everything behind. Her hoard is a security blanket to her. There's also other things mixed in like a phobia of letting personal details leave the house, even junk mail with a name and address. Many of her generation also have a waste not want not attitude still ingrained which doesn't help.

I'm inclined to collect like her, but train myself to consider why I keep things, are they useful, loved, or replacable. I try to apply reason to the thing I keep otherwise I've seen my future (which would also involve me being a mad cat woman as DH would divorce me!)

Another child of a hoarder here. I would say if someone can't let go of stuff that is clearly worthless, or at least unnecessary, then they are a hoarder.

You can't make them change. They have to want to. Don't throw their things away without their agreement or you will be breaking their trust in you.

It's infuriating. I completely understand.

My parent's house is a cluttered nightmare, I wish there was an easy answer to how to get them to stop it. My parents have a similar problem with giving anything to charity.

My Mum acts like her 'stuff' is somehow more special than anyone elses and shouldn't be seen in a charity shop. They, too are very well off but won't part with the junk (and lots of it is junk). The selfishness and greed of it upsets me at times.

The only way I can cope with it is to leave them to it and I don't visit their house very often any more.

Probably not helpful at all but just so you know, you are definitely not alone with this issue

They will never accept that they are hoarders. It's one of those conditions that sufferers don't see (or they'd probably do something about it). Resign yourself to having a nightmare of a house clearance ahead of you one day. Speaking from bitter experience.

How old are they?

This is relevant because hoarding is an actual specific condition in some older people.

So it may be very hard to deal with.

I am worried that the place is becoming a fire risk, and that FIL (who has quite serious mobility problems) is moving around less than he might because it is too difficult to navigate around the endless stuff.

that's what says it is beyond 'liking possessions' and becoming a problem.People have actually been flattened by their clutter.

I don't know what you do, but I don't think you are exaggerating the problem.