School is bleeding us dry with trips

[Brewstersmillions]

My son and daughter have been at this school almost a year now and I'm all for them having trips but am shocked at how much these trips cost how frequent they are ,that you have to pay for things u wouldn't expect to and how they give you hardly any time to pay.
Every time I seem to get a letter it's demanding money for something.

Even after my sons assembly the teacher stood up and announced they was having a collection for a cause and could we donate on the way out.
I didn't take my purse to his assembly as that's not the place you expect to have to dish out money .on the way out when a child was stood there with a dish and I had to explain with all the parents queuing behind me that I couldn't give them anything was so embarrassing .

First letter since Easter term was for a trip to a reservoir close to where we live the school wants £18 for this trip for my daughter £18 ! For her to look at a pond !
I know that petrol is expensive for coaches but £18 per child for like a 2 mile trip thats free to enter is very excessive .

Next up was a letter for my son to go to a activity trip in Norfolk for 5days when he starts year 6 .thats great as I never got to do it when I was at school I was a big girl and the thought if going pot holeing scared me in case I got stuck lol .
so he can defiantly go but when I see it cost £240! It made me think twice it has to be paid ASAP plus spending money too
I had to pay £10 depost already then another £50 by june then the rest ASAP .

Next up a letter from the school saying my son is going to be having swimming lesson with the class at the seniors directly across the road . Now at there previous school they also has swimming lessons which were free and I remember they were free when I was at school but oh no the school wants £19 for each child to have swimming lessons . Which has to be paid for by next Friday :/

We only have one income coming ATM money is tight but we have managed to get this money together as I don't want my children missing out and being left behind but I'm just so pissed off at how expensive trips are these are all since Easter !

There are no after school clubs that are free for the juniors either

The school obviously thinks everyone is made of money

I wish I had millions ;) lol xx

Residential seems fine.

Reservoir trip is too expensive.

Swimming is ridiculous. If the lesson is in school time they can't just spring an amount on you. Our school used the PTA to fund swimming costs.

Go in and speak to the HT. If other parents feel the same, get them to back you up.

I receive continual demands for money. Your swimming lessons are cheap, I have just been asked for 60 for two. The three day residential is 470 for two. Football trips 75 for three, bus trip to town five minutes away was a tenner each, trips to musicals 27 each parent to accompany. When I queried the bus trip charge, I was told it was because of the bus company "insurance".

I have got to the stage where I dread letters. The latest was on Tuesday and the school seem to realise it is getting incredibly expensive as they included a tick box to pay later!

In my lottery winning daydreams i imagine setting up a fund that would pay for the less well off pupils to go on all these amazing trips. I would finance passports, spending money, clothing and all expenses.

I would love to do this as it is awful imagining what it must be like to know there is no chance of going. My friend used to throw the school letters away then get into trouble for not bringing the signed slip back. It was because she knew her parents couldn't afford it so did not dare ask

And the trips offered by one local school-

Ten days in Japan.
A four day NYC trip.
A trip climbing in the Pyrenees.
A trip canoeing in the Ardeche.
Ten days in Finland.
A week in Berlin.
Ten days skiing in Austria.
A week in Barcelona.
Football camp in Germany.

And assorted domestic trips.

I know exactly how you feel OP. It can be relentless.

My eldest daughter went to a great school, but it was terrible for this sort of thing, demanding money left, right and centre.

My younger two daughters are at a different school, and I haven't had so many demands from them, though I did recently have to say no to my youngest when she wanted to go on a £930 ski trip. Something has to give, and many of us just cannot afford that sort of thing.

I think your residential trip sounds fairly good value, and par for the course at £240, even though it is a lot to have to fork out all at once.

The £18 reservoir trip sounds very expensive for what it is and I would query that one before paying it.

As for short notice, when my youngest was still at primary school they once forgot to send out the letters about a trip until the night before. Then they wondered why no-one had responded. Fortunately the cost was only £5 on that occasion, so we managed, but I was annoyed at their chaotic organisation.

ive had to say no to this trip my ds isnt bothered anyway hes not a fan of dressing up plus hes been to this place 5 times previously with family which lived 5 mins away from it .
I live in essex and this is only half hour away so another trip which is hugely overpriced
am currently as we speak emailing the school to complain :*

Some schools take the piss.
The residential is really good value, but £18 for the coach trip is a laugh. Most schools try really hard to keep costs down - DD2 had a trip to France last year, 5 nights away, coach and ferry travel, all meals and activities and entry to Disneyland Paris all for £340 - I was well impressed.

DD1's school on the other hand may be extracting the Michael - I had a flyer come through for a skiing trip for Spring half term in 2015 - £1500 for a week in New Hampshire!

I mean, what's wrong with the snow in Europe, FFS?

I've often felt like filling in a direct debit mandate for the school and sending it in with a letter saying that I'll happily pay them an agreed amount per month if they would just stop springing trips and requests for money on me at such short notice.

What surprises me is that the amount of organisation that goes into a school trip/activity is significant. Risk assessments, staffing levels - it all requires a lot of planning. Which takes time. These things are known about quite some time before the parents get asked for money, so why can't they ask then and give parents time to sort themselves out?

Also, since many trips are repeated annually for each new year group, wouldn't it just make more sense if schools published at the start of each academic year an 'expenses' notice detailing trips/activities. Even if the specific date/cost has yet to be set, the school will already have a good idea about the approximate date and cost, which would at least give parents a chance to prepare.

A particular bug bear of mine is the rising costs of school uniforms as I've seen amongst friends how these can actively put some families off even applying to certain schools. State schools shouldn't be able to sneakily discriminate against poorer families like this.

I do think perhaps the OP should mention to the HT that the costs of trips are becoming a problem. Schools are so put upon by Ofsted and Gove at the moment that I think staff may not get much chance to come up for air to explore the world outside their own bubble sometimes and may not be aware its causing problems.

Tbh 5 days for 240 sounds a bargain everything else sounds completely reasonable and usual in schools except for swimming, we never paid for swimming.

Schools put a lot of effort into organising trips and activities for their pupils, and the fact that your school is doing this (when it's much easier not to) says a lot about it.

There is also absolutely no way that they're making a profit, so whatever they're asking you to pay is exactly what it's going to cost.

But I do think they should give you sufficient notice, and that you are within your rights to query the cost.

I don't understand why schools can't plan the trips they want to arrange in coordination with parents at the start of the year, rather than at such short notice through the year. I mean, even if you've got plenty of money you don't want to be continually paying out for things, so why not send a letter home to all parents outlining the activities you'd like to arrange for the coming year, and getting an idea of which ones are most likely to be popular?

That way, parents with children of different years have a better idea of what they might be asked to pay for, they don't organise things which then have to be cancelled because not enough people have shelled out, and they can work all this out before they tell the children about it, get their hopes up, then have to cancel.

I know in some cases there might be an amazing opportunity that comes up at short notice, but most of the time, you know when things like exam periods are going to be, and often the trips are the same ones as last year.

OP, £18 for a local trip to a free facility sounds excessive. I work in a primary school and one of my jobs is organising the school trips. Coaches are definitely more expensive nowadays but they carry their own insurance which should be included in the price they quote.

Today I was pricing a couple of nursery trips but they have proved to be too expensive. My HT stated that she was not prepared to charge the parents in excess of £11 for the trip (to a free venue), it was unreasonable (most of our trips are pegged at £4-£6 max). The other alternative is for the school to subsidise the trip, but sadly finances are very, very stretched here and we just cannot afford to subsidise trips. They are going to have a teddy bear's picnic instead at a local woodland within walking distance. Cost - nothing. just hoping that weather is kind to us.

One option for you would be to write to your HT and state that the cost of the reservoir trip is excessive, you can't afford it (and you don't have to tell him your financial details either it's none of his business) but you would be prepared to make a donation of £x amount (£5 or £6 or whatever you CAN afford). If that's not acceptable and your child is faced with being left behind missing out on an educational excursion which is surely illegal, you can make a complaint to the school board (or whatever it's called in England). If nothing else, it might raise the issue officially and you may find a lot of other parents are also unhappy with this situation.

The swimming lessons question is an interesting one. Our council has always organised and paid for swimming lessons for all P5s (P4 in England) in the district, including the coach hire to and from the venue. That is, until this year when they have now announced that from next year (2014/15) there will no longer be swimming lessons at all. Cost cutting. I believe that if our school wanted to continue these lessons, we would have to fund it ourselves, or rather, the parents would. I can't see that happening though, it would prove too expensive for many parents.

Hope you can sort is out, OP.

Oh and just to add. We never, never, never leave a child behind if they don't pay for a school trip. That's just wrong.

Look at this guidance & see if they're remaining within it... I bet they're not!

That's a good link, Maidupmum. Here's an interesting bit...

Quote *Nothing in legislation prevents a school governing body or local authority from asking for voluntary contributions for the benefit of the school or any school activities. However, if the activity cannot be funded without voluntary contributions, the governing body or head teacher should make this clear to parents at the outset. The governing body or head teacher must also make it clear to parents that there is no obligation to make any contribution.

It is important to note that no child should be excluded from an activity simply because his or her parents are unwilling or unable to pay. If insufficient voluntary contributions are raised to fund a visit, or the school cannot fund it from some other source then it must be cancelled. Schools must ensure that they make this clear to parents. If a parent is unwilling or unable to pay, their child must still be given an equal chance to go on the visit. Schools should make it clear to parents at the outset what their policy for allocating places on school visits will be.

When making requests for voluntary contributions, parents must not be made to feel pressurised into paying as it is voluntary and not compulsory. Schools should avoid sending colour coded letters to parents as a reminder to make payments and direct debit or standing order mandates should not be sent to parents when requesting contributions.*

Questions and Answers from the document...

Q. Can a school ask parents for voluntary contributions?
A. Schools may invite parents and others to make voluntary contributions to make school funds go further. All requests to parents for voluntary contributions must make it quite clear that the contributions would be voluntary. It should be remembered that education provided during school hours must be free. This includes materials, equipment, and transport provided in school hours by the local authority or by the school to carry pupils between the school and an activity. Governing bodies should also clearly explain that children of parents who do not contribute will not be treated any differently, and that the activity might be cancelled if insufficient contributions are received.

Q. The school has sent letters out to parents asking for contributions towards a school visit, do parents have to pay?
A. Head teachers or governing bodies may ask parents for voluntary contributions towards the cost of:
? any activity which takes place during school hours;
? school equipment; and
? school funds generally.
Children of parents who are unable, or unwilling, to contribute may not be discriminated against. However, if insufficient voluntary contributions are received to cover the cost of the visit, or activity, and there is no alternative method to make up the shortfall, then the school should cancel the activity/visit. It would be advisable to make parents aware of a possible cancellation to the activity/visit if insufficient voluntary contributions are received from the outset.

Q. What happens if the school is not able to raise enough voluntary contributions to cover costs?
A. Where there are not enough voluntary contributions, and there is no way to make up the shortfall, for example school funds and/or fundraising activities, then it must be cancelled. The possibility of the activity/visit being cancelled due to a shortfall in contributions should be made clear in the information sent to parents.
Q. What if a parent is unable, or unwilling to make a voluntary contribution? How does this affect their child(ren)?
A. The school cannot exclude a child from taking part in an activity that is part of the national curriculum purely on the grounds that you, the parent or carer, cannot make, or refuses to make a contribution. This can clearly place schools in some difficulty on occasions where a number of parents/carers might be in such a position. The school then has to decide whether they can cover the costs of such activity from within the budget or by fundraising, or whether the activity has to be cancelled.

What support can a school offer a parent/carer who has difficulty making a financial contribution?
A. Schools must ensure that parents in receipt of Universal Credit, Income Support, Income Based Jobseekers Allowance, support under part VI of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, Child Tax Credit, provided that Working Tax Credit is not also received and the family’s income (as assessed by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs) does not exceed £16,190 (Financial Year 2013/14) are aware of the support available to then when being asked for contributions toward the costs of school visits. Some schools also have funds available to enable families in financial difficulty to send their children on visits/activities. Parents should be encouraged to speak to the head teacher in order to establish if such funding arrangements exist.

Q. What about charges for transport during school hours?
A. Any transport provided by the school in school hours will be provided free of charge (though a voluntary contribution could be requested).

I agree, it's a never ending stream of money for things! We had a letter two days before they broke up for Easter for a trip the day they went back, so realistically, it needed paying immediately as the school would be closed for 2 weeks, and I had to find £15, which is a heck of a lot of money out of my weekly budget. On top of all the trips, there's cake sale each week to send money for, money each day for a piece of fruit at break (not allowed to send our own!), plus the various non-uniform days that we have to donate to charity for, theme days to find costumes for, the PTA constantly asking for raffle prizes and then the raffle tickets, school discos...

I wish they would work out the cost of everything at the start of the year and let us do some kind of payment plan on the full amount.

I am a bit shocked by this! A mother of preschooler, so I have all that to come... I don't remember a single school trip fondly, mostly 'forced fun' and boring but it could have been oir school. i would love the option of not contributing and taking DD on a day trip with family, but guess that wouldn't be allowed, considering the new law?
I just don't understand how a school can fit so many trips in and doesn't allow students time off during term to go somewhere with their parents instead!

Most schools do a day trip a term and do swimming at some point. From newsletters from the first month of reception everyone know which years do residentials, when they roughly are and costs. None of it should come as a shock.

Coaches can be very expensive and schools also have to have insurance. Thats without entry to the place.

School would be lacking if they didnt do the nice things as well. There is a lot of extra work re trips and they only get charged at the cost per pupil. N profit or extra added for the parents that wont pay.

My DS recently had a trip to the nearby park. When I say nearby it was literally 20 mins on foot, not excessive for a class of 8 year olds. There is the usual play equipment, swings, climbing apparatus etc. Pets corner. Large field where they played rounders and cricket. There are only 16 in the class and they took the school minibus which seats around 20 driven by a teacher. They asked £10 for it! And they took their own packed lunch and they were not allowed an ice cream from the van. Total utter rip off!

The notice for the trip and payment seems very short.

DD had residentials from Y3 at primary school, but we always knew they were going to happen (as happened every year) and there was a meeting and the letter given out in the first half term (so September) with request for deposit within about a month, and then payment date spread out for the next 4 half terms - and the trip being in May/June.

You can ask for a breakdown of trip costs by the way. Schools are not allowed to make a profit on any trip and cannot ask other parents to pay more to cover the cost of other children not paying, etc.

I was at the local farm on an organised trip with DS2 and his special school. The owners where talking about the reduction of school visit by those schools in poverty areas. They where saddened that they opened to schools so children could have the experience and yet the only children benefiting where those who had visited many times as toddlers with their parents. The transport was the problem as they offered some schools free entry on certain dates and the school still could not get the contributions for transport to make the trip viable.

Going on trips can be incredibly expensive, if you can't walk to the venue. Getting a coach for my class for a normal day trip (within the city we live in) costs generally about £150. I've got a small class. They already have to pay nearly £6 just for the coach. If we want to go any further, it's even more expensive.

Our catchment area isn't particularly affluent, so I'm very aware of how much money I can ask for. I doubt most teachers just book trips without considering the costs involved. We are trying incredibly hard to keep costs down.
My class have five whole-day trips this term. Their parents have been told about them and given an estimate of the costs about 4 weeks before the actual letter asking for payment went out - so about 6 weeks before the first trip. They pay £9 for the five trips in total. However, we aren't going anywhere far away. The venue itself is free. We get help with transport (because it's too far to walk) and I have heavily subsidized these trips with money from school funds (I get a set amount for my class each year). We still have to pay for the sessions at the venue.
I agree that £18 for a one day trip is a lot of money. However, I'd simply ask what the money is being spent on. Schools don't tend to just charge random amounts.
The alternative would be not to do trips.