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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask someone to explain the "life sentence" thing to me.

28 replies

Gurnie · 07/05/2014 22:19

How can someone receive "13 life sentences" let alone serve them...and then be being prepared for release? I get that these are different to "whole life sentences" but why is a life sentence so called?

OP posts:

OwlinaTree · 07/05/2014 22:21

I was wondering this myself - have you been thinking about the escaped (now recaptured) prisoner?

deakymom · 07/05/2014 22:26

its 20 years for a life sentence they serve them concurrently which means no matter how many people they have killed they still get out in about 10 years

Betrayedbutsurvived · 07/05/2014 22:30

When a prisoner is released early they are on licence for the rest of the term, and can be recalled to prison if they break the terms of the licence, in the case of life imprisonment, that licence will last their entire life

winklewoman · 07/05/2014 22:30

I understand, and I am not a legal person, that life sentences are so called because they are for life - which does not mean a life spent in prison , but, after a certain time, the person will be out 'on licence'. This means that any slight infraction of the law atbsny time can result in an immediate return to prison.

The time actually to be spent inside is determined by the judge taking all sorts of things into consideration. The judge has a starting point then adds or subtracts time depending on his/her view of these factors.

Legal MNetters may well provide more expert information

MostWicked · 07/05/2014 22:31

I think (not sure) that a life sentence is 15yrs or more and has a minimum term set by the judge before they can be considered for parole
If they are released, they have to stay in contact with their parole officer for the rest of their sentence.

In preparation for release, they can be sent to open prison as a step towards rehabilitation.

It does seem very questionable as to why this person was considered safe for open prison. He won't be getting that opportunity again.

Original poster

Gurnie · 07/05/2014 22:33

I am a bit thick tonight I think.....I still don't get it deakymom! So each of his life sentences refers to one of his crimes for example 13 armed robberies but he, in actual fact, just ends up serving one of them. What is the point in giving them then? I am confoosed!

Yes, I was a bit Owlina. It just seems odd terminology!

OP posts:

Original poster

Gurnie · 07/05/2014 22:35

Oh, sorry, x post. Thank you all for clarifying that, that makes more sense now!

OP posts:

Catsize · 07/05/2014 22:36

deaky, that's not right. Not in the UK anyway. A judge sets a minimum tariff befire the offender can be recommended for release. You don't do half like with other sentences. Say the minimum tariff is 20yrs, the offender will stay in for 20 years and may or may not get parole if they apply for it after that. They will be on licence for life.

TucsonGirl · 07/05/2014 22:38

Sentences should not be able to be served concurrently IMO. And life sentence should mean exactly that, you get locked in a cell and you do not leave the cell alive. If it's something other than that, call it something else.

fifi669 · 07/05/2014 22:39

I don't get other legal systems either where you can be sentenced to 300 years or something! Is that just incase they become cyborgs?

winklewoman · 07/05/2014 22:39

Deaky , they don't all get out in ten years. A member of my wider family, (Note the 'wider' , I'd hate anyone to think it was a DS or a DH ) is currently serving such a sentence for murder and his minimum time inside will be over 16 years, and then only if probation and other professionals recommend it.

Catsize · 07/05/2014 22:40

Have a look at this...
CPS link

Also explains about whole life orders, where no minimum term is set.

ilovesooty · 07/05/2014 22:41

its 20 years for a life sentence they serve them concurrently which means no matter how many people they have killed they still get out in about 10 years

Sure. That's why Brady, West, Sutcliffe etc are now walking the streets. Not.

There is a difference between a life sentence and a whole life tariff. As some posters have said, when murderers are released they are still subject to licence.

Original poster

Gurnie · 07/05/2014 22:43

I know TucsonGirl, how does that make any sense at all? To give someone that many life sentences and then to say they are going to run concurrently?! That's like not serving them then isn't it?

OP posts:

TucsonGirl · 07/05/2014 22:56

In America they would serve them consecutively. I know people knock the US justice system but this is one instance where they have it spot on. I can't see any possible reason for serving sentences concurrently.

Optimist1 · 07/05/2014 23:02

I agree, Tucson - have to admit to coming over all Daily Fail today hearing that not only was this person serving 13 life sentences concurrently, but in an Open prison and on day release!!!

wowfudge · 07/05/2014 23:11

A life sentence is for the rest of the person's life, however the average term served before being eligible for parole in the UK is 15 years. Where a tariff is set then the person serves a longer sentence. Human rights legislation and subsequent cases meant that politicians, e.g. The Home Secretary could no longer set the tariff - only a judge can. Tariffs are set for those guilty of particularly awful crimes (not just murder; being found guilty of rape can carry a life sentence) can specify a number of years or whole life.

In the UK rehabilitation of offenders is the aim rather than simply punishment or retribution by society. Also our prisons are overcrowded and keeping someone locked up is very expensive. Criminals who are judged to no longer be a danger to society, especially those who have shown remorse for their criminal actions are more likely to get parole and be released before they have served their full sentence.

In some states in the US those found guilty can be sentenced for several crimes with the individual crimes being set to run consecutively, sometimes resulting in a sentence exceeding the possible remaining years of life the person may have left. Consecutive sentences are relatively rare in the UK. Last week's sentencing of Max Clifford was one such unusual example - the judge's way of maximising the jail term to be served.

wowfudge · 07/05/2014 23:12

Individual sentences being set to run consecutively

Original poster

Gurnie · 07/05/2014 23:16

Thanks wowfudge and all who've replied. Do you know why someone would be given 13 life sentences though? Is it just basically acknowledging that he has been found guilty of 13 such offences? It just seems a bit redundant and pointless if they are going to run concurrently anyway.

OP posts:

MostWicked · 07/05/2014 23:52

I know people knock the US justice system but this is one instance where they have it spot on. I can't see any possible reason for serving sentences concurrently

In the US, they incarcerate a higher percentage of the population than any other country on earth.
They don't have the lowest crime rate, not even close, its one of the highest in the 1st world.
Locking people away for decades on end doesn't actually help.

TillyTellTale · 08/05/2014 00:35

I read this and began to wonder if the man is capable of rational decisions.

If he hadn't kept escaping and committing robberies, he would have finished his original sentence free and clear around twenty years ago. Does he want to be in prison? Does he have a large-scale form of kleptomania?

NormaStanleyFletcher · 08/05/2014 00:43

if the sentences run concurrently and he successfully appeals one, he will at least be in prison fir the other 12.

There is guidance for judges on whether they should award concurrent or consecutive, and what to consider when making that choice. Will see if I can find it in the public domain.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 08/05/2014 00:50

There is a document on the gov website if you are reallyinterested. I can link to it tomorrow (on phone nowso a bit crap)

caroldecker · 08/05/2014 00:51

He has absconded on day release before and commited crimes, then escaped and committed more before this instance - has been in prison or robbing banks since the early 80's

caroldecker · 08/05/2014 00:51

He has absconded on day release before and commited crimes, then escaped and committed more before this instance - has been in prison or robbing banks since the early 80's

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