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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

10% of NHS budget is spent on t2 diabetes vast majority is self inflicted, aibu to think they should contribute?

355 replies

Lauranda · 06/05/2014 14:09

Its estimated that the cost will go up 17% by 2020. Something needs to change or the NHS will collapse.

Maybe make people that are overweight pay something towards their treatment would in courage people to eat better and exercise more.

OP posts:
HecatePropylaea · 07/05/2014 11:14

So you are in fact saying that the only category that you would see require a top up over what the person pays to the NHS via their national insurance contributions is weight?

Nothing else?

Just weight?

Not smoking, not drinking, not skydiving, not taking drugs, not getting a tattoo on holiday from a drunken bloke with a sewing needle, not any of the ways in which it can be argued that people negatively impact on their health?

You're sticking with fat and nothing else?

Original poster
Lauranda · 07/05/2014 11:15

I usually don't reply to unpleasant people that feel the need to mock other people to make a point. But just this once, I have not mentioned weight here other than quoting someone else, so that says more about your prejudism claiming that I'm being fattist.

OP posts:
Thurlow · 07/05/2014 11:17

How on earth are you going to decide what has caused a condition? I'm not medical expert, but I can imagine it's rarely that simple and obvious whether hereditary conditions or weight have caused a condition.

And yes, I would very much like to hear your opinion on other injuries and conditions and not just T2 diabetes. How about, just as a few:

  • STIs and unplanned pregnancy - should anyone having unprotected sex be charged extra for the consequences of that? How will you prove that it wasn't a contraceptive failure?

  • Injuries sustained during contact sports such as rugby, football, hockey etc.

There is clearly a discussion to be had about whether the system is working as it stands. But pointing at a 'fat' person and saying "you caused your own T2 diabetes, you must pay for more treatment" is not the way forward.

Original poster
Lauranda · 07/05/2014 11:17

Hec you do realise I didn't even say weight...

OP posts:
Original poster
Lauranda · 07/05/2014 11:18

Lol yet another person calling me fattist, even though I never mentioned fat or weight? Hillarious

OP posts:
Thurlow · 07/05/2014 11:21

OK, if we ignore weight, who is to judge what qualifies as a healthy diet? One persons healthy is another persons junk food. You might eat your 5 a day and a home cooked meal in the evening, but have a pre-pack sandwich and crisps for lunch, and a biscuit as a snack in the afternoon. I'd estimate that is quite an average day's food for a lot of people.

But for others, that would still be a junky, unhealthy diet, perhaps with far too much salt and sugar.

Or take someone who has genuinely lived on takeaways for the past decade. If they swap to oven or homemade pizza - you know what, for them that is making the first start towards eating healthier. But it is still unhealthy in the wider scheme of things.

How on earth do you judge 'making an effort'?

plumchittering · 07/05/2014 11:22

Perhaps your words in your OP (bolding mine)

Maybe make people that are overweight pay something towards their treatment would in courage people to eat better and exercise more

are what is making people think you're fattist.

Original poster
Lauranda · 07/05/2014 11:22

who is to judge what qualifies as a healthy diet?

Qualified health professionals.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 07/05/2014 11:27

As hospitals can't even provide inpatients with a healthy balanced diet I would question their ability to decide upon who is treated free and who has to pay for their treatment based upon what they eat!

Thurlow · 07/05/2014 11:28

And judging making an effort? Is someone supposed to just flip from takeaways to 8 a day, miso soup and stir fry?

Forgive me if I'm not so impressed by the idea of qualified professionals judging when you say you are one yourself...

You are basically saying that unless a patient eats a proscribed diet then they have to pay towards their treatment. So everyone in the UK should eat a particular diet, that's the logical conclusion. What would you imagine this diet would be? And how are people supposed to afford it, when it's clear that fruit, vegetables and meat costs more than processed food?

I'm not disagreeing that people should be encouraged to be healthy. I'm just interested to know a) how you actually think this would work in practice and b) why you won't comment on the other suggestions about 'self-inflicted' injuries and conditions mentioned by dozen of posters?

Thurlow · 07/05/2014 11:29

And yes, you did say weight in your OP.

TessOfTheFurbyvilles · 07/05/2014 11:32

Lol yet another person calling me fattist, even though I never mentioned fat or weight? Hillarious

I refer you to this bit in your first post...

Maybe make people that are overweight pay something towards their treatment would in courage people to eat better and exercise more.

Original poster
Lauranda · 07/05/2014 11:33

I did in the op, but not in the replys today that people were responding to.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lauranda · 07/05/2014 11:34

And judging making an effort?

That would be up to the qualified professionals.

OP posts:
LiberalLibertine · 07/05/2014 11:35

So what are you on about then?

meddie · 07/05/2014 11:35

I wondered how long it would be before they started villifying the overwweight, now that smoking is on the decrease (more so since the advent of ecigs).
Maybe I,m just being cynical here but why does this feel like its leading to a tax on 'bad foods' you know in the name of health promotion, the same they did with fags and they do with alcohol.

Sirzy · 07/05/2014 11:35

Are these proffessionals going to follow people around 24/7 to make this decision? Or just go off what they are told? You haven't really thought through through have you

rabbitrisen · 07/05/2014 11:37

Her other thread descended into non sense too.

Original poster
Lauranda · 07/05/2014 11:37

Someone I care for was given the option of either changing their lifestyle or taking statins by the doctor. I find that fundamentally worrying.

OP posts:
dawndonnaagain · 07/05/2014 11:38

I really don't understand this mentality that the NHS must at all costs be free at the point of use. Billions is spent in it and we have the 18th best health service in the world while the French have the best health service in the world where people who can afford do contribute towards their health care, but the state pics up the vast majority of the cost. People don't value something that is given for free.

If you claim job seakers you have to prove you've been doing your best to get a job in order to protect the public funds.

If you have a condition that is self inflicted through decades of abuse by eating junk food and doing little exercise I don't see the big deal in only giving free percriptions if the recipient is making an effort to improve their health.

Not sure why so many people are in favour of the status quo, its not working and getting increasingly unsustainable.

This makes me racist?
No, but judging from sentence structure, punctuation, spelling, it makes you full of yourself, somehow superior, and with barely a qualification to your name. You are not a doctor. If you are a nurse, I am seriously concerned. What gives you the right to judge? I'm surprised you haven't mentioned people with drug habits, smokers, those unemployed through no fault of their own, the disabled. FFS, look to yourself first.

PrincessBabyCat · 07/05/2014 11:40

Here in America people that smoke, are overweight (though everyone is throwing a fit atm about it), are old, and/or have prior health problems, all pay extra on their insurance. But we also have a lot of uninsured because they still can't afford it and most bankruptcy is caused by medical debt, and the hospitals are going broke because no one can pay their bills. The government gives the hospitals money so they can stay up, but at the cost of raising the national debt.

So... we do it, and it doesn't seem to be helping anything. Also, we still have smokers, alcoholics, and obese people.

BackOnlyBriefly · 07/05/2014 11:41

Great idea OP. We can also charge pregnant women, including any ailment that might be aggravated by pregnancy. After all that is self inflicted too.

And then there's all those sports injuries including those like skiing and horse-riding that affect worthy people.

HecatePropylaea · 07/05/2014 11:41

You didn't say anything about weight? I am so confused.

From your posts

"Maybe make people that are overweight pay something towards their treatment would in courage people to eat better and exercise more."

"Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own health, just want the government to provide a magic pill."

"If you have a condition that is self inflicted through decades of abuse by eating junk food and doing little exercise I don't see the big deal in only giving free percriptions if the recipient is making an effort to improve their health."

They seem to me to relate to weight. Do they not seem to relate to weight to you?

I was responding to your OP in my first post. Which you chose to not respond to, which is your right of course, but a shame.

I do not understand how you can say the above and then say to me that you have not talked about weight. You don't have to say the word weight in order for weight to be your point, when you are talking about health as a result of weight. Are you saying that weight or if you want to be pedantic health as a result of weight is not what you were talking about in your op and not what you were talking about in the posts I refer to? If so, what were you talking about?

CuntBiscuit · 07/05/2014 11:47

Can you post links to some of these people who have "reversed" their diabetes through diet, please? Just five or ten or so would do. As a diabetes professional, I'd love to hear more about these people.

Wickeddevil · 07/05/2014 11:52

As runner pointed out up thread, the highest proportion of spend for the NHS, social care and DWP is older people.

We could save a fortune in taxes and NI if we introduced euthanasia around age 75. Would that be an acceptable alternative OP?

BTW 10% of the NHS budget is spent on medicines, and 10% of that (1% NHS budget) is wasted, sitting in people's cupboards at home, over ordered from the GP or just not wanted....