To wonder why people think Zoos are ok, but not Seaworld?

[Charlilou490]

I really cannot understand the views of some people on this site.
How can you condemn a place like Seaworld and other Aquariums, saying that whales, dolphins etc shouldn't be kept in captivity, but then say you have no problem with Zoos? In both cases animals are in captivity, NOT in their natural habitat.
Can anyone explain this to me, without bringing the Blackfish documentary into it.

I think there may be differing views on what constitutes conservation work.

Extending facilities for the treatment is local injured animals is laudatory, but isn't a part of the conservation of endangered or critically endangered species (for which captive breeding programme may be the only way to avoid extinction).

Animal welfare and vetinerary services are reallynot the same as serious conservation work. But if yo believe then to be the same, then yes you would include rather more establishments as acceptable.

The zoo I do tend to go to is Yorkshire wildlife park and their enclosures do seem a good size.

They rescued their lions from an awful zoo in Romania and they now have big grassy enclosures. They're about to rescue a polar bear from poor conditions in Mexico and are currently building what they say will be a massive polar bear habitat. They're involved in a breeding programme for rare Amur leopards. They tried to save Marcus the giraffe that got killed by the zoo in Europe, Denmark??

WooWooOwl I would like to now why it is 'Pathetic' of me to ask this question and ask for Blackfish not to be mentioned.
The reason I asked this was to get actual answers from people, reasons they had thought of themselves without this documentary being used as a reason.

Pitchslapped you've got it spot on.

newfavouritething your comment is ridiculous.

As for animals in circuses I thought the UK no longer licensed them?

The conservation argument is Sea World spin to justify their circus. They only ever release animals which they can't use for performance. Granted they rescue manatees but lots of other groups rescue marine mammals and manage to do so without having performing whales.

I just rechecked the report and they use .0001% of profits on conservation work

I can't bear to watch Blackfish. My husband watched it and has said he is ashamed that we went to the one in Orlando many years ago. He said what the hell were we thinking of- we would never have contemplated going to a circus with performing animals.

But what's wrong with having an opinion that is formed partly by Blackfish? People have to get their information from somewhere...

I'd like to decree that we continue this debate without any reference to animal rights organisations, Gerald Durrell or English broadsheet newspapers.

Asking the question is fine, but you would get your answer as to why people object to sea world if you watched blackfish, so it seems disingenuous to ask that it not be mentioned.

Watch the film, then compare what you see to what you see happening in zoos. Sea world doesn't compare to zoos, it compares to circuses that are now illegal.

Those who are interested I recommend watching A Fall from Freedom. It should be free on YouTube.

Good post woowooowl. I agree completely.

In animal ethics an argument often cited is of a scale, so at one end say keeping amoebas in Petri dish, fish, farming tadpoles, reptiles, breeding pigeons, then the upper echelon of haloed mammals.
Within mammals we wouldn't care for primates the way we care for intensively farmed pigs, so a "scale" still operates. When it comes to keeping animals in captivity we tend to think intelligent mammals require as close an environment to their natural habitat as possible.
So 1) on a scale of animal intelligence I would consider orcas to be above primates or other zoo animals so should not be in captivity and
2) we can nowhere near replicate their natural habitat hundreds of miles of ocean, nowhere near the scale of say roaming range of tiger
So the animal cruelty exhibited by seaworld is far and above any zoo

Re the scale issue I actually think fish farming is cruel. Salmon cages are vile.

the zoo i take my kids to rescued a bear who was forced to perform in its "natural" habitat if you clapped he would walk backwards and stand on two feet im glad they took him tbh

I wouldn't set foot in Seaworld and I haven't set foot in a zoo for more than a decade, though I do see that some of them are genuinely conducting important conservation work, as opposed to a marine park which is basically a floating circus.
OP, I find your attitude that Seaworld can only be getting a hard time because it's easily-led people who want to be trendy speaking out, frankly insulting. There are many of us that have been campaigning against captivity for decades. I'm very very glad to see Blackfish getting mainstream viewing because it's opening a lot of eyes as to what goes on in these hellholes.

You judge a zoo by its breeding programme.

If the animals live in a habitat they are happy in they will breed.

In the opening chapters of life of pi the character describes growing up with the zoo and describes the animals experience as like having their ideal environment created and maintained for them without the risky business of having to defend it or his food source from competitors. It also cones with free dentistry.

This is obviously somewhat idealised but it helped me move from 'against zoos' to 'oh look at all the interesting shades of grey'

My local zoo has an excellent breeding programme and I am proud to be a member of it. None of the enclosures makes me feel sad for the animals inside.

Wrt performing animals I am not against training animals in general providing that the animals receive no negative reinforcement for non-participation.

My dog does a wide variety of tricks, we both thoroughly enjoy the learning process

Loving training based on the animals natural behaviour is probably a good mental workout for creatures whose brain power is not being used to hunt for food and defend itself

We have a Seaworld, a world famous zoo and a safari park in my city. I only go to the safari park and that has been years.

They do have performances which concerned me but I talked long and hard to a trainer. Their policy is that they open the gates and some animals come in, some do not they don't encourage any in. Some of the elephants like the interaction with the crowd, some want nothing to do with it, some come for the fruit (it is like candy for them), some come some days and not others. All the 'tricks' they do are ones they teach the elephants for care and during the show they explain why they do that. I still don't like wild animals performing for entertainment but if they are truly choosing it...

I went to the safari park because I would rather my money say "If we are going to keep animals in captivity, I prefer parks with lots of space for animals". This one has 1800 acres, most of which is for the animals. The zoo in comparison (run by same company) is 100 acres and houses a lot more animals.

Oh and Blackfish has nothing to do with it. I have lived in this city since my oldest was two (over 15 years ago), we were members of the science museum, maritime museum, legoland, disneyland, natural history museum at some point during his childhood. Never Whale Jail. He has been to Seaworld once. I did not pay, my friend took him when she was looking after him for the day. I knew they were going somewhere, but not there. He has not been to the zoo. He has been a number of times to the Wild Animal park.

There are good and bad zoos, there's one in Rome that's awful with a polar bear in a small enclosure pacing back and forth, clearly stressed.
Then there are those that do extensive conservation work and treat the animals well, it's not that hard to tell them apart.

clarksonsperm I went to Durrell's zoo in Jersey, most amazing place and perfect example of how a good zoo can work. I particularly remember some monkeys which had no enclosure at all as they naturally kept to a certain area of trees

Since I was a small kid I have never liked sea world, zoos or circuses and the like because of the using animals for entertainment issue so I haven't just jumped on the bandwagon. I hate to see caged animals full stop which is why my house is over run with rescue animals! I am pleased that some zoos, and I am lead to believe sea world, are trying to help conservation of some very endangered species but it's just crap that to make the money some animals are being exploited in such an un-natural way!

Having visited sea world in Florida then been lucky enough to see dolphins in the wild whilst on a boat in Egypt I would never go back to sea world. Seeing them in the wild and how they act and how intelligent they are was a total contrast to watching them jump through hoops for dead fish.

The enclosures at Seaworld are completely set up for the public as it would be impossible to mimic the natural environment. At a good zoo where the focus is on conservation the environment of the enclosuresis carefully planned to try to reflect the animals natural habitat.

Programmes such as dolphin cove and Blackfish have simply reinforced my views and opinions.

Well, it depends on which zoo you're talking about. We're members of a local safari park that is well-know for its conservation efforts and reintroducing species back into the wild that have almost become extinct. The animals there have good sized enclosures and plenty of space (although obviously nothing like their natural range in the wild). But as an educational facility that allows people to see exotic animals I think it's pretty good.

As for SeaWorld - yes I've been to the one in San Diego (a long time ago), and yes I've also seen 'Blackfish', which is a heartbreaking film. I think its important that people know what they're visiting and make an informed choice and what their money is supporting.

The bigger question really is 'do you care about what your money goes to support?' Do you buy factory-farmed meat or only free-range? Battery-farmed eggs? Do you buy fair trade and ethically sourced coffee and chocolate and tea? Do you only buy wood products that come from sustainable forests? Do you only buy dolphin-friendly tuna? Its all the same thing.

I'm a zoo fan. I've been to an awful zoo abroad that really upset me and I've been to some brilliant ones in this country that are doing a great job and where they've rescued and bred animals in a really ethical way. It's naive to blanketly say zoos are bad. Have never been to Sea whatever though.