To wonder why Seaworld hasn't been closed down for animal cruelty

[Albertatata]

Just watched Black whale - the whale that killed on BBC4. Seaworld seems such a cruel and abusive set up, how can anyone think that it is entertainment?

it was a great documentary, definitely recommend it. So shocked about how the whales are captured, abused, neglected and bred. I really want to protest about it in some way - anyone got any ideas of the best way to do this.

I have been to Seaworld, the Orlando one and met Tilikum and some of the other whales round the back of the stage area, where they live. I can say that the trainers love these whales as they are their own children.
I have watched Blackfish, and whilst I agree Seaworld have done some wrong, the program is very one sided. There is no definitive proof that Tilikum killed the first trainer, only the 2 women speaking on camera said it was him, it could have been any of the 3 whales, i personally think they were jumping on the 'bandwagon' so to speak. There is also no proof that he killed the man that jumped onto the tank. I actually know someone who worked there at the time. Tilikum was protecting this mans body from the other whales in the tank at the time he was found. There is no proof he was the 'killer'.
People seem to have forgotten all the conservation work and rescue work that Seaworld are involved in. They have rescued hundreds of injured manatees that would have died in the wild due to injuries from speedboats and mankind. They also educate people on how to be safe in the water and how to keep the animals in the water safe.
I do agree that the wild is the best place for all animals, however there are reasons some animals are in captivity.
Tilikum couldn't be released to the wild now as he wouldn't survive after being in captivity for 32 years and I think the people petitioning for this are incredibly naive.

It is the same with Zoos. I refuse the visit Chester Zoo after seeing how their orangutans live. These are highly intelligent creatures and they are kept in a concrete room with a small amount of straw in the floor and a few hemp bags. I know they have now added an outdoor 'play' area, but it's not enough to stimulate these animals, however I wouldn't call to release them all to the wild as I know they wouldn't survive as they haven't learnt these skills.

I really don't see how people can defend Zoos but critique Seaworld and call for it to be shut down. Surely they are both doing the same work and as bad as each other (if that's what you believe)?

I would never want to go to the likes of sea world as I hate what they do to the mammals all for our "entertainment." I have been to aquariums in this country which detail their conservation work but is this true or are they as bad as sea world?

That is good to hear queenofwesteros thank you for the support.

Unfortunately a lot of the aquariums in UK including are owned by a company which also owns marine parks in Europe that hold captive dolphins and whales.

Seaworlds conservation record is terrible. They spend less than 1% of profits in the last 10 years on conservation. It's all spin to let people believe these are poor rescued animals not healthy animals ripped from their natural habitat.

Thank you Cat

Thank you. Just found Blackfish on Storyville on catch up. Watching now

I watched blackfish this afternoon, still feeling really sad. The seperating the young from the pod was just awful.
The Cove is also awful. I don't know why I was naive enough to think if they're breeding in captivity they must be happy, but of course it's artificial insemination.

i guess because it makes tons of money and pays lots of tax
drives tourism to the areas etc

I have very mixed views on this. I watched the documentary this afternoon. I've been to sea world and to discovery cove. I agree that the conditions they are kept in are unsuitable. Far too small and unnatural and yes cruel to keep them in such conditions. But I do believe that they can and do form real bonds with people including their keepers and trainers. I also believe that if they did not want to perform the tricks they would not. Yes they were and are given food to perform but there is more to it than that. Watching the performances and the interaction you can see that the whales and dolphins are getting more from the training than just food. What I would like to see is a marine park built on the coast with the ability to release the animals back into the open ocean and give them the choice about the level of interaction they have. I think that would give them significantly more credibility and I also think that the would naturally end up with animals that were right for the situation. Whilst at discovery cove I did have a dolphin experience and found it very rewarding. The staff clearly cared about their animals and the space in which we were working with them was large and the dolphins more than able to go away if they choose to. The one we were with was very willing to interact with and never for a moment seemed distressed.

As for the issue of zoos I do believe that they play a very important role in conservation. Rightly or wrongly people need to be educated about the issues that these animals face. The breeding projects are essential to ensure the long term survival of many species. Yes it's wrong that the main reason that many of these species are under threat is as a direct result of mans actions. And is even more horrendous that this is still going on. But if we have the chance to save them and don't sent we as equally responsible for their loss? By having them in captivity people see them understand some tiny part of the horror that they as a species are going facing and are far more likely to do something about it than just hearing about it in the news.

thinkingaboutfostering instead of an ocean based marine park would it not be better to see the animals in the wild?

I understand you believe the dolphin wasn't distressed but that is because it has had years of training. I have witnessed dolphin training and it's not pretty. Even if the tank area is large they can never return to their family, never hunt or reproduce naturally.

foolssilver The very same can be said about Zoos, it would be better to these those animals in the wild too.
Also, no one can say whether that dolphin was distressed or not, only the dolphin knows this, regardless of how much people think they know about training techniques.

Seaworld actually spend less than 0.0001 % of its revenues on conservation.

The park is barbaric and I hope, in 50 years' time, people will view Seaworld in the same way as people view performing elephants and bears in a circus - with shame and horror that anything so inhumane could ever have been allowed.

Indeed Charlilou as commented on the other thread o disagree with zoos.

I have personally witnessed both the capture and training process and can definitely say it causes distress to the animal. You are correct though that none of know whatvthe dolphin described by pp felt, we definitely don't understand them totally and that's another reason they should be left alone.

Charlilou even supposing Blackfish was one-sided (and that'll be because Seaworld refused multiple requests for invitations to participate), it is simply unacceptable to keep such large intelligent, sentient social beings in the equivalent of a bathtub. It really is. And no one is remotely suggesting that these animals just be released into the wild, far from it. There are well though out plans for rehab for those animals capable of it, and large open sea pens for retirement for those not. These have been drawn up by some of the worlds foremost experts on orca. There is no excuse any more for keeping these animals in captivity exclusively for the shrieking masses to gawp at.

And as for Seaworld "doing good"....it's laughable. They spend the tiniest percentage of their income on rescue and they have never, ever released any orca back to the wild. There are many organisations which really do carry out valuable rescue and rehab programmes. Seaworld is most definitely not one of them.

And as for Seaworld "doing good"....it's laughable. They spend the tiniest percentage of their income on rescue and they have never, ever released any orca back to the wild. There are many organisations which really do carry out valuable rescue and rehab programmes. Seaworld is most definitely not one of them.

We live very close to a Seaworld -- or as it is known locally "whale jail" it is ridiculous, whales migrate past us twice a year, you can see them in the wild. We have amazing natural resources here that you can see close up. We have a coastal underwater reserve where you can swim with stingrays, leopard sharks and lots of our state fish the garibaldi which is a beautiful striking orange fish.

Yes Seaworld does good works. If a kidnapper worked as a fire fighter saving lives does that mean that if he is caught and has his day in court we should say "but he is a fire fighter, he saves lives!" and let him carry on?

Blackfish is one sided. I will give you that. But my money will NEVER go to Seaworld.

Yes ultimately it would be best to see them in the wild. And I think that's where a coast based marine park would work because the would still ultimately be in the wild with the option of having human interaction.

With regard to the dolphin I interacted with no I don't know for sure how it was feeling. What I do know was how it interacted with us and the feelings I got from the experience. I have worked with a variety of animals and know a little about training animals and have gradually developed a feel for picking up when an animal is willingly interacting and when they would rather not. I never felt like the dolphin didn't want to interact and that's not something you can train an animal to do. The space we were in was at a guess about 500 square meters and was set up in a beach style. In this space were the 5 or 6 dolphins there interacting with guests and trainers. The groups where spread out along one side on the beach area and the water got deeper further away from the beach. The dolphins could get quite along way away from us had the wanted to.

What I would not want to see is a situation where interaction with these creatures was not possible. It's proven that we can benefit from interacting with them who's to say that they couldn't benefit in some way from the interaction too?

According to this article from 2006, apparently swimming with them in the wild isn't even necessarily the answer.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/30/AR2005123000488.html

We are hoping to go to Hawaii for our 20th anniversary and it would have been cool to do this. We can see dolphins locally though, they often swim up to boats and swim around them, jumping and flipping.

I don't think us benefitting is justification for keeping a wild animal cooped up in an environment not really suitable for them. There are many ways we can get similar benefits.

Dont you think the dolphins would benefit more from being in the wild, living natural lives with their pods instead of being in an expensive petting zoo?

Dolphins who take part in swim with/experience parks are trained to know they won't get fed if they don't interact. So yes technically it could have swam away but it wouldn't. Or if it did it gets punished.

In terms of a coastal based marine park, please Google Taiji. That us what they are planning there. Already animals there are in ocean pens but they are still tiny. Our selfish need to interact should not trump an animals right to live freely. Lots of dolphins will approach you if you are diving. That is the only time when it would be truly their choice.

fools I can't post links, but could you post a link to Sea Shepherd uk and a little information on how best to get involved, both actively and financially -so anyone reading this thread who wishes to look into Sea Shepherd if they haven't already, can do so easily....

Sea Shepherd

I know you didn't ask me, but heres the link anyway. They are a fantastic charity.

Thanks WooWoo !