to make a complaint? Need advice from someone who works in a university

[AnonymousStudent]

Apologies in advance for being vague, but as this is an ongoing issue I obviously don't want to say too much. I've NCd as well just in case.

I'm a third year science student, a few weeks from the end of my undergraduate degree, and as part of our dissertation we're required to carry out a laboratory project under the supervision of one of our lecturers. I've had a huge amount of trouble with my supervisor for various reasons, and have ended up having to speak to the dissertation coordinator who's agreed to give me an extension and/or mitigating circumstances.

So far I've only raised the issues that are likely to affect my final grade, but one other thing I haven't mentioned is that at one point I ended up being called in by my supervisor to do some laboratory work outside of term time. I was only given one day's notice, and although I wasn't exactly happy about it at the time and tried (admittedly not as hard as I should have) to protest, I couldn't see any other way that my project would be finished on time, so I agreed. This wasn't a case of the research being so long it overran, by the way, but of me having to constantly push him to arrange any lab work at all as he was constantly leaving it all to the last minute - I think I ended up working for about ten days over a period of as many weeks.

It occurred to me the other day that while I'm in the middle of sorting out mitigating circumstances anyway I should probably bring this up, if only to stop other students being put in the same position in the future. I had a look through the guidelines for the laboratory work and found that we're not actually allowed to do any out of term time without extensive discussion with senior people, which leads me to think it's probably an insurance issue and potentially more serious than I realised.

WWYD? I keep swinging between worrying that a complaint won't be taken seriously and I'd essentially be told to suck it up, and worrying about unleashing a shitstorm that's completely out of my control... How bad is it really, and what (if anything) is likely to happen if I do?

I'm not in the sciences, but I would think the out of term issue is more to do with protecting department research time rather than insurance - the university will have to insure for graduate students and assistants to use the lab year-round in any case. I'm in another subject, but it is common for students, especially third year students, to have teaching out of term if that is the only way the tutor can manage to deliver it (because of unavoidable research or other teaching commitments, for example) - in fact most students are keen for this rather than the reverse!

You might add it to any complaint you make, but I'm not sure it will be seen as a big deal, though happy to be corrected on this by a scientist.

Fair enough train! Thanks for your input

The "rules" regarding undergrad lab time are most likely a ruse to ensure that labs are not chock full of students who have left things to the last moment.

I would not bring it up and concentrate on documenting fully all the times that lab time/resources have been refused or delayed.

I work in chemistry at a university, so if your science doesn't match obviously rules might be different and each institution has different rules etc. (Don't expect you to say which one you are in, just telling you for information)

That said, for us the out of term lab time isn't an issue in and of itself for insurance purposes and it happens pretty frequently, exactly as train said.

However the fact it sounds like you felt pressured into doing it at short notice is something I think it could be worth mentioning in the wider context of your complaint if you are talking about the problems you had with your supervisor (but probably not it's own seperate complaint if they makes sense). Certainly in my department whilst out of term work would be something that could happen, it's supposed to be treated as a last resort and not something that we would pressure for and especially not if the student has mitigating/extenuating circumstances.

Finally, good luck with the rest of your project and any exams you have!

Sorry, I don't think there is anything remarkable about it. It sounds fairly typical for lab work, especially when you are bottom of the pecking order. I don't think it is serious or an insurance issue either, more discouraging students from the labs when they might get in the way. If you were asked to come in by someone more senior, then I think the box will be ticked. It won't unleash a shitstorm, not unless you work with nuclear weapons or the expensive machines that coat things in gold.

I'd have conversations with the other students doing similar projects and only complain about things that are very far from the normal experience, not from your expected experience. The research labs are essentially a different arm of the university and not structured around teaching, but they do offer the most authentic impression of what a research career would involve (can you tell I didn't like lab work very much)!

I have an undergrad degree, PhD and research post at a university, all in life sciences, so have experience in this type of issue from all angles. Have n/c as there are a few in my lab who use this site.

Have you already been granted your extension? Do you need to provide these mitigating circumstances as written evidence in order for the extension to be granted or is your discussion with the dissertation coordinator enough? If you don't make a complaint, will you still get the extension you need?

Importantly, do you have enough data to write a good dissertation? When you were asked to come in to work at the last minute, was this to get results to be included in your project? I realise your limited with what info you can give, but if you can answer it would help to give better advice.

On what you have written, I suggest take the extension and leave it at that. Write the dissertation to the best of your ability, ask for someone to look over it-if your having trouble with the supervisor are there any post-docs or PhD students in the lab who could help?

I completely understand that this situation will have been horrible for you. It happened to one of my friends in our third year, she had some problems with her supervisory team, she spoke to the convenor, arrangements were put in place with the supervisors to resolve the issues. Both were at fault but she had already burned her bridges. They barely read over her dissertation when she handed it in and she got a low 2.2 for it-marked by 2 independent examiners. This pulled her final grade down to an overall high 2.2. She was unable to do her PhD and years later, works in a low paying field she has no interest in. It was completely unreasonable. The supervisors still are part of this course and take on about 4 students per year. I'm willing to bet my poor friend has largely been forgotten. Its not nice, but its true.

The reason I say don't make a complaint is that it is unlikely you will get the outcome you want. The harsh reality is you are one of many students and the lecturers/post docs/research staff will support each other should it be a formal complaint.

I fully appreciate that you feel you have been let down. However, students and supervisors have different priorities and no doubt your supervisor will have a different view to this. I want to make very clear I am not saying you are in the wrong, I don't know enough about the situation. Having said that I can already see if you make a complaint regarding the two issues you have (limited lab time due to supervisors poor planning, having to come in the lab out of time) your supervisor will respond with things like 'struggled to grasp concepts in the lab quickly/unable to come to the lab on days where I was free/didn't plan own time effectively/ so needed more time to generate data'.

Sorry for it being so long, but essentially making a formal complaint is generally more hassle than its worth. If you want to stay in academic science its a small world and supervisors all speak to each other. Get your head down, do the work and finish your degree.

I am unclear on what you are asking the Uni for and what you hope to achieve.

Are you asking for an extension? These are usually granted relatively easily and the dissertation advisor can help you with the reasons you can cite for applying for one.

Mitigating circumstances are presented either on submitting the work or while it is being graded or the grading process being appealed (depending on the Uni's rules, this information should all be in your departmental and course handbooks and probably on the Uni's website). They are a way of requesting that your grades are re-considered and are usually used to help a student from a fail grade to a pass grade.

Also exactly what are you hoping to get from this process? Would you like more time to complete work you won't have ready before the deadline? Would you like to raise a complaint about this supervisor and/or about departmental policies?

Do you have a personal tutor, or advisor, or director of studies, or whatever they may be called in your university? That person may be able to talk you through the procedures - what they will involve, and what benefit you're likely to get. Your university student union should also be able to help.

Most universities have different procedures for appeals and for complaints. Appeals are for when you want to contest a result. Let's say, your case for mitigating circumstances isn't upheld meaning that your difficulties getting lab time aren't reflected in your mark. At that point (when you know the result) you might want to raise an appeal - but you probably won't be able to do it until the mark has been finalised.

If you want to make a complaint about your supervisor, or your department's management of your supervisor, or something else to do with departmental policy with a view to getting things changed for future students, then there will be a university complaints procedure which you'll need to follow. This should be available on your university website.

I agree with what's already been said about the costliness of appeals and complaints. Before you start one you need to be very sure what outcomes you want, and you should be reasonably confident that the outcome will be worth the expenditure of time and effort. And do get advice - either or both of your academic tutor, and your student union.

Hi everyone - your responses are all very considered, thank you for taking the time to write them

Just to clarify a few things, I realise I worded my OP very badly - I'm not looking to make a formal complaint, as I know it's not likely that anything would come of that, and there's not a lot I can achieve from it anyway. I'm currently having a semi-informal conversation with the head of the dissertation module about everything, though, as I needed to explain everything in order to get an extension, and I was wondering whether to bring it up there. Sorry, I really didn't make that clear at all.

I'm not looking to achieve anything from this for myself - I already have an extension, which is all I needed (I didn't even apply for that myself, I was offered it by the head of the module because it was clear that there was literally no way I could finish on time otherwise). It was more that I didn't want anyone else to be put in the position of being pressured to either come in at short notice or not be able to get any results at all - it wasn't too bad for me as although I'd been planning to go home I hadn't actually made travel arrangements, but we have plenty of Irish and European students who might already have booked flights, for example, and they would most likely have got a very low mark if they hadn't been able to get any results. I was hoping that if I made the people in charge aware of what happened then it might be easier for anyone in the same position to ask for help next year, as they'd be more likely to be taken seriously, but maybe it wouldn't make much difference.

I just wanted to check that it wasn't gong to be a bigger deal than I realised where I'd end up regretting mentioning anything, which it sounds pretty clear that it won't be

Whoever it was that asked about whether I'd still be able to write my dissertation, yes - I have very few results, but afaik we're not marked on the actual lab work at all, only on the writing.

newscientist that's terrible about your friend! The things they don't tell you about academia...

Runner I only wish I worked with nuclear weapons!

I worked as a research tech in uni until recently. Our undergrad research students are expected to spend every free moment during the week in the lab, come in weekends and work holidays if their project requires it (as long as a researcher or tech is in to let them into the lab).

And most of them worked over the summer in the lab finishing up their projects. However ours was a busy lab with ft research staff so we worked all year round with the post docs babysitting the students. Most were happy to do the extra work as they always got outstanding marks as they were treated as part of the research team. Plus it was a doorway in to getting a postdoc from our group leader if they performed well.

I work in chemistry at a univerisity and I manage a lab which is used by post docs and some undergrads.
It is totally fine to work out of term time and many students who have run out of time/supervisors who aren't very organised (which sounds like yours is) do work out of term time.
The only issue is that lone working is not allowed, so as long as there are other people/technician around it's fine to work in the lab.

anon that is completely unacceptable on the part of your supervisor.

I don't know if its changed but when I did my degree (many many moons ago) results were considered as part of the grade in that you had to be able to explain what you saw and show reasoning for the next step in the research. I had to show what I had spent a year doing. I would also talk to your advisor about if this may affect your marks and if he/she can write a covering letter or something explaining the mitigating circumstances behind your lack of results against what is expected with a years worth of research (is it still a year or have they shortened the time allowed). My supervisor died, unexpectedly and completely devastating for everyone at the university, towards the end of my project and for a month the lab was in disarray as no one could face coming in, the university had to show that as the reason we students were missing a months worth of data.

Anything you can think of you should be mentioning if only as the bigger picture might help the university to decide what to do next year or any additional support they may be able to give you. You pay so much money now for a degree, you should get value for money.

I will say a friend of mine did have to do very long hours, nights and weekends as part of his research project but what he did was counted and he ended up with a very high 2:1 plus a lot of experience and his supervisor wrote him a very good reference. He was one of the first of us to get a job in the field because of it.