To be unhappy with my children's nursery?

[differentkindofpenguin]

this is my first AIBU, although i have been lurking for many years!

I need some advice regarding the nursery my kids go to, I really don't know if IABU. DS is 3 1/2, and DD is 16 months, they go to the different rooms of the same nursery. they have both been going for 8 months. The nursery seems good on the paper, good Ofsted report, qualified staff etc. But a few things just don't seem right, and I don't know if I am overreacting. If there is a problem, should i try and resolve the issues or look for a new childcare provider?

Communication is not great. When we collect the kids, we just get told: "s/he's been fine today" before the member of staff hands me the child and turns away. I often have to chase after them to ask about if they ate their dinner, if baby had a nap etc. Old nursery before we moved house used to give a quick report. On one occasion baby had a temperature and has been given calpol which I didn't know about until I got a chance to read her book, which was not until the evening.

Food seems healthy but not a great variety, and does not look or smell appetising.

Baby's face is always covered in snot and food, it's dried on so doesnt look like she has been cleaned all morning. Staff ratio is fine and they do not look rushed off their feet.

More worrying are the things my little boy says. He does not like going in and always cries, although seems to enjoy it once he's there. Recently, he would shout things like " EAT.YOUR. DINNER!" or "YOU'RE A PAIN, GO SIT ON THE CARPET!" at his sister, in an aggressive way that is not like him at all. Also, we never, ever call anyone a pain, he could only have heard it there! There is no way he could have heard it at home, at greatparents', or on TV (not unless Fireman Sam has gone mean over the years!). I was once going up the stairs to DS's room in nursery to pick him up and heard a member of staff shouting at a child to stop going in the cupboards in a loud, aggressive manner. I brought this up with the manager who said she has spoken to the staff in the room.

Today, I asked DS what he did in nursery. He said he had to sit on the step for not eating his dinner! I was really shocked by this, he is a fussy eater but i don't believe punishing him will make him a better eater! I tried to call the manager but she was not available, and did not ring me back. no mention of this on collecting him, or in his book. He doesn't make stuff like this up, 3 year olds can't lie right?

It also worries me that they do not seem to know the children very well even though they go 3 times a week. Things like my kids are bilingual. They have a high staff turnover, and key workers have changed several times, mostly without telling us.

What do my fellow mumsnetters think? Help!

Good for you op. bit please make a complaint once you have moved your children out. It might save other child from bring spoken to like that.

I have been to many nurseries through work and would be very worried based on what you have said. Trust your gut instinct and find another nursery.

I would be concerned too...Re kids can lie..My Ds at that age came home from nursery said he had had nothing to eat or drink all morning... ( he would of only had snack ) so I phoned nursery spoke to staff in his room..Deputy manager said oh he sat next to me and had so and so to eat and so and so to drink...ok thank you..get off the phone..did you sit by and have and*.. oh yes...so yes there version of events isn't necessarily the true one but lots of things worrying here..Trust your gut instinct...If your children are not been cared for and you left them then found out later you would feel far worse than you do now.

Gobbolino - How about a childminder instead. If you found the right one, they would do lots of lovely activities with your DS, but in a home environment. I completely understand about you wanting to have time with your dd, just as you did with your ds when he was little.

Good different, sounds very concerning, your ds well being come first

If in doubt at all move them. It will worry you otherwise.
I would move them on the basis of what your son said.
Ds never came home dirty. Messy from playing is fine, but the dried on snot and food is not great.

I think you are doing the right thing in find an alternative.

I would not be at all happy in your boat either.

There are loads of fantastic childcare options out there, I am sure you will find a solution that suits you all really well

My daughter initially went to my work nursery, lots of colleagues used it for their kids and liked it. I didn't and found a different one. The work one was purpose built, large and noisy. Lots of zones for different ages and babies seemed to have the least inexperienced staff.

I found a smaller one with a cosy more family like feel. I would look around for a different nursery and trust your instincts.

Change nursery. I did just for sloppy communication which kept going down hill despite discussions.

Not a single thing you say has been my experience of nursery over the last 4 years. Quite a lot of those things would ring alarm bells with me. The temperature/ calpol one would have caused me the biggest concern.

Not all nurseries are like that, I would go and have a look at other ones if I was you, I think you would be surprised at how much better they can be.

what were you looking for when you chose this nursery - what convinced you to choose them? If it is not what you hoped find another - look for ones that really focus on the dc.

i looked at some lovely nurseries - there were ones that seemed to be run with more of an ethos that revolved around dc, their experience and development, you could tell a lot more thought had gone in to the whole thing - one was on a farm - they had veggie patches for the dc and the chef would use -them in the lunches he prepared and they had animals that the children helped look after including collecting hen eggs - there were others that seemed to lack that and were just about processing dc through the daily routine.

line up a load of viewing next week and get the ball rolling.

They have a high staff turnover, and key workers have changed several times, mostly without telling us

Even if everything else seemed fine, this would bother me a lot.

I would not want a succession of people caring for my DC. They need to have someone special to go to - whole point of a key worker, surely?

Add everything else that is worrying you and it's a no-brainer. Take them out and then complain.

I would be concerned :(

Report your concerns to Ofsted - who knows what is happening with the non verbal children...

I'm a nursery nurse and I would be finding my chidlren a different nursery. NONE of these things are acceptable.

I'm a nursery nurse and I would be finding my chidlren a different nursery. NONE of these things are acceptable.

I would change too. My 16 month goes to nursery and he loves it. And they are brilliant too. They give me a written report at the end of every day including food, nappies (time of change and whether wet or dirty), calpol, sleep times, food and how he's eaten (always well, little chunk :D ) and a brief summary of what he's done. Then I get pictures emailed to me at the end of the day so I can see what he's been doing.

They never mind overprotective mothers (me) ringing to check on pfb, they always answer emails and they were happy for us to just drop in before he joined (I think this one is important as it shows they have nothing to hide). And they have regular parents evenings where you can taste the food.

Look around, don't put up with this shit, there's plenty of excellent childcare providers, don't bother with someone crap.

This is nothing like my nursery.

I would find a new one ASAP and and report your concerns thereafter in writing to Ofsted.

All of these things would bother me greatly.

trust your instincts.

i removed dd2 from a nursery when she was about 20 months for similar reasons to you.

wish i had listened to my instincts sooner.

Definitely move them but also make it very clear why you are doing so in the form of a formal complaint.

There will be plenty of parents with children there who have no idea what is going on or don't realise how unacceptable it is. Please raise it for the sake of those children.

I would be very unhappy with this, and it is nothing like the nursery that my DS goes to. Remove them and complain in writing so they know that they have problems and are loosing children because of it.

DD1 went to small local vol run playgroup then onto school nursery
DD2 started local preschol as a baby and staid till she started reception
DD3 went to local mother and baby group then onto a private day nursery, not outstanding, think it was good

Never experienced anything like like this, the only kid who hated it was DD2 but she still hates school. She used to say no one liked her, i stayed back one day and spied on them from the kitchen, all appeared to be fine. They were never dirty and i dont think they ever mentioned being shouted at, the only one who done 3 full days and had dinner was DD3 whos a fussy eater. They tried her with the dinner and a packed lunch was always left as backup, sometimes she picked at the dinner and then ate a cheese sanwich from the packed lunch. She still loves cake and custard the nursery started her on

I would be concerned enough to move them and i am of the opinion that outstanding ofsteads don't always turn out to be the best. I would instead read what parents have said, i read the ofstead reports of 2 local schools, one was outstanding and one was poor but impoving fast. What struck me was the comments left about the poor school. The children always felt save and secure, they kids were happy and confident and knew how to espect their peers. Nothing like this was mentione in the outstanding report, it said the kids worked very hard. I know a parent who was at the outstanding school and in reception the amount of homewrok they were given imo was ridiculous and included learning french, half of them didn't even know English yet at 4, my dd same age just used to get a home reader and some key works and number work. When DD2 started school at that point it was good with many outstanding features but they left her till yr 4 with no help for her SEN's even thought i went into battle with them The next ofstead report it slipped to satisfactory and the lack of help for the SEN dept was flagged up. We then got a new headmistress who started from scratch, got DD2 assessed brought in outside help etc and shes more or less caught up over the year she went up 3 reading levels, she has worked very hard as have the teachers.

Sorry for typos, going too fast

i am of the opinion that outstanding ofsteads don't always turn out to be the best

I agree. Outstanding Ofsteds mean that settings are good at paperwork and working to targets. People will tell you that Ofsted inspectors are skilled enough to see what's really going on and can tell when someone's putting on a show but I've worked as a childminder and in lots of settings while they were being inspected and they really aren't. They take what they see at face value and make big judgements based on very small snapshots. There isn't any other way to do it.

Take inspections reports with a pinch of salt and go with your gut feeling after several visits, including at least one without an appointment. Just pop in to drop off some paperwork or ask for a copy of a policy and watch and listen carefully to what's going on.

DS goes to both nursery and a pre-school. Nursery is rated as outstanding by offstead. Pre-school is "satisfactory" and I very nearly did not send him there for that reason but the convenience of its location meant we gave it a try and I love it - so much better and more child/less paperwork focussed than the nursery (which we unfortunately still need one day a week for the wraparound care)! A major lesson re offsted!

What I will say though is that DS comes home from nursery/pre-school with some choice phrases and usually the situation is that he has learned them from the other children mirroring how their parents speak to them or their younger siblings. Additionally sometimes when we give DS a time out he can occasionally misunderstand the reason for the time out (eg if two incidents have occurred close together) so is it possible that he has misunderstood the reason for the "naughty step" at nursery?