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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not pay parking charge notice

62 replies

dagmarsablob · 25/04/2014 00:10

I probably will pay for a quiet life, but I am unreasonably distressed at the thought of handing over £60 for nothing and being made to feel like a car park criminal.

Story is: I took my Mother to a retail outlet so she could buy a tablet. Paid £1.30 for a ticket at the appropriate pay and display machine - the type where you have to put in your reg number. She got her tablet and we left the car through one entrance, then she decided she wanted to go in a different store (her words 'as there was still plenty of time left on the ticket') within the same retail outlet but through a different entrance. We left around half an hour later, still well within the 3 hours allowed.

A week later,I duly received a parking charge notice for £100, reduced to £60 if paid within x number of days. My car had been photographed entering and leaving the 2nd entrance but they have no record of my reg no being entered so insist no ticket was purchased. IT WAS so I appealed unaware that leaving and re-entering when the ticket was still valid was in breach of their rules. Appeal was rejected and I am due to pay by tomorrow or face the inevitable trail of threats to increase the cost blah blah blah.

£60 isn't the end of the world. I can pay, I just don't want to as I don't feel I broke the rules, but I don't think it is worth the hassle of not paying.

Sorry - tried to keep this tedious little problem brief

OP posts:
Ishouldbeweaving · 25/04/2014 09:36

As others have said, the law changed recently (2012 I think). The advice under the old legislation was to ignore them because they didn't have a leg to stand on. You will get many responses telling you to ignore it (I did and...) but although that may have been right for them under the old law it doesn't apply to you now.

Did you take it to the independant adjudicator or was it just the informal appeal? As others have said, go look on MSE and see if you've taken it as far as you can.

gordyslovesheep · 25/04/2014 09:36

I don't understand how, if it's Registration/camera based charging, giving a man your ticket would even work anyway - unless you also gave him your number plate?

Thing is you left ...then came back and reparked, requiring a new ticket

EverythingCounts · 25/04/2014 09:43

Ignoring worked for me in the autumn of 2013, so if the law changed in 2012 it wasn't making any difference then. Recent threads on MN have also said this.

Walkacrossthesand · 25/04/2014 09:52

The law changed Oct 2012 (protection of freedoms act) - it means 'they' can't clamp your car any more, but it also made the car's keeper liable for parking 'offences' so a different tack is needed to shrug off these attempts to charge you. As others have said, there's very helpful advice and step by step guidance on the internet. Do follow it, or you'll likely end up in court wishing you had.

EverythingCounts · 25/04/2014 09:59

So how come the vast majority of people in this position ignore and still don't get taken to court? There was a graph somewhere on the MSE site showing this.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 25/04/2014 10:01

I guess because they aren't guaranteed to get recompense enough to cover court costs even if they win so it's more profitable to keep intimidating people in the hope that a few will pay up.

Bemused33 · 25/04/2014 10:02

Don't pay! My brother in law actually phoned the stores and said you are having a laugh I spend money with you every week etc. it was all quashed. I think he over stayed on his time limit and it was aldi x

TheGirlFromIpanema · 25/04/2014 12:08

Because Everything some parking co's will pursue all the way to court - and some won't. No amount of anec-data on this thread will prove otherwise.

Not a chance I'd risk personally when there is a totally viable alternative of following advice and appealing.

Bemused that's why I asked OP which company it was, some retailers are learning that there customers are unhappy and having tickets quashed. Others not so much.

Original poster
dagmarsablob · 25/04/2014 12:08

I have been doing research for weeks and I know that the concensus is to hold out and it will eventually go away. I came here just to hear 'live' voices. Someone might just come up with something I haven't already thought of.

What is actually really needling me is that I don't believe I infringed the T & C by leaving the car park and re-entering. The car park company have said that it one continuous car park and all the machines are connected to the ANPR system. So either they are blatantly lying to say that they have no record of my reg no or it is the case that the machines don't function as they should. Why should I have to pay twice because I was in and out when I had an unexpired ticket.

The other point that interests me is the amount they are trying to extort claim is due to them for what they consider an act of trespass. Apparently this is worth £100 to them even though my presence in their car did not cause any injury, inconvenience or loss of income. A tiny bit of wear and tear on their tarmac maybe. If they choose to waste time and money on generating admin costs more fool them. Judging by the amount of traffic on the MSE, pepipoo, old MN threads etc I am really shocked that it is allowed to go on as widespread as it is.

I am not so sure giving the ticket away qualifies as a breach on my part - moreso on Mr Hobbycraft's part depending on what he did with it. He didn't buy a ticket afaik and was likely also issued a pcn. Wonder if he's paid up?

I just don't think I can cope with the hanging threat of the remote chance of it being pursued down the line. Does anyone have any information about how much they threaten to add on when the bully letters start arriving or what the time scale is if the remote case of it going to court happens and what the outcome is likely to be if it did go that far? Because it happens so infrequently there doesn't seem to be much information.

It seems that it is irrelevant whether or not the contract was breached and it is more a case that they have no real interest in pushing these cases so ignoring them works out. The fact that only one poster here has said they received court papers is quite compelling but I still don't like it and would much prefer it if the matter was closed completely than have it come back to haunt me.

I am blathering on aren't I - having written this down I think I have just decided that I would be a complete mug to shell out without a fight and should go ahead with the POPLA who are genuinely independent appeal - what have I got to lose?

OP posts:
Original poster
dagmarsablob · 25/04/2014 12:14

Ipanemagirl

I'm not sure naming the company here is in my best interests. Sheffield based if that helps. Your voice is speaking more loudly to me here than those saying just ignore. As I said in that diatribe above. I would prefer the matter done with than waiting to see if it goes all the way.

OP posts:
TheGirlFromIpanema · 25/04/2014 12:15

Nothing Smile

POPLA rate for this type of appeal is as I said, roughly 100% upheld.

They have to pay for the POPLA appeal too so its all good Grin

Which parking co is it? I certainly wouldn't want to waste time if I was one of the unfortunate ones who they chose to pursue, its time, effort and undeniably (some) money that you'd never get back. Even when if you won.

Go to pepipoo and copy a template appeal letter, and put the matter to bed.

TheGirlFromIpanema · 25/04/2014 12:19

Aah g'wan, name and shame them - there's nowt they can do.

I'm sure even parking eye are not trawling MN looking for mentions of their name, they are far too busy being baited by the fulltime internet parking campaigners Grin

Fwiw I have one on the go with YPS (Yorkshire parking scvs) for a friend. I really thought this newly formed one-man-band in Leeds wouldn't even apply to DVLA for keeper details but he has, so we will deal with it through POPLA. And cost him money in the process.

VivaLeBeaver · 25/04/2014 12:20

Ask them for a popla code and appeal via popla. You will win.

I get loads of tickets at work. I owe £1000s in fines. I ignore them. They haven't taken me to court yet and I wish they would as I know I'd win in court.

Bastards ignore my requests for POPLA codes so I can't appeal via them. The letters are very heavy but don't bother me as I know I'm in the right.

TheGirlFromIpanema · 25/04/2014 12:23

I quite fancy taking in the shower of shite that trawl patrol the industrial estate where my gym is Viva but the knobbers always back down before the appeal even. Spoilsports Grin

I assume some people pay up though which is how they carry on for a while Angry

VivaLeBeaver · 25/04/2014 12:25

They're only allowed to charge you a "fine" of the amount of money they reckon they've lost. So if parking is £2 they can't fine more than that.

And this is obviously if you hadn't bothered buying a ticket. Which you did. So they can't fine you anything.

In one of the most recent cases where Parking Eye did take someone to court the court found in the driver's favour and awarded the driver costs of having to take the day off work and come to court!

VivaLeBeaver · 25/04/2014 12:27

I actually think they've stopped ticketing me now.

I've parked "illegally" twice this week already and no ticket.

Original poster
dagmarsablob · 25/04/2014 12:30

My first is in hatchet but not in chat
My second is in exporter but not in topper
My third is in rec but not in err
My fourth is in millet but not in milt
My fifth is in crenelation but not in reaction

Grin

That'll put them off the scent....

POPLA it is. But....how many configurations of procrastination do I need....if I do the POPLA appeal does the parking company start chucking on charges while this is ongoing? Has anyone here actually done the POPLA route?

OP posts:
Original poster
dagmarsablob · 25/04/2014 12:34

People paying up is apparently where they make the real money - so lots of people must do it.

Beaver problem is I can't prove I bought a ticket....

I have a POPLA code

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 25/04/2014 12:37

I believe that if you lose at popla you lose the right for any early payment discount they may have offered. But you only have to pay the full ticket price. Not any inflated/increased charges that they add on as time goes by.

VivaLeBeaver · 25/04/2014 12:39

This is a good site.

www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla/

VivaLeBeaver · 25/04/2014 12:42

The burden of proof is with the parking company.

Which if true suggests they have to prove you didn't. You and your mum are upstanding, honest people I'm sure who will both swear that you did.

They can be asked by POPLA to show their records of who did buy tickets that day and they should have their records. Of course you're then relying on them not to tamper with the records I guess.

But you can appeal on the basis that its an unfair charge and that alone is enough for you to win. They can't charge more than the price of a ticket.

Original poster
dagmarsablob · 25/04/2014 19:14

Thanks for your posts here today - especially Ipanemagirl and Beaver.You have really helped focus my mind. Now procrastinating about how to word the POPLA appeal!

OP posts:
eleflump · 25/04/2014 20:24

Definitely do the POPLA appeal as per the moneysavingexpert and pepipoo forums and quote that there is no GPEOL - genuine pre-estimate of loss - in that them trying to levy a fine of £60 is completely disproportionate for the alleged non-purchase of a parking ticket costing £1.30.

It might also be worth going back to the shop where your mother bought her tablet and showing them the receipt to see if they are able to influence the cancellation of the ticket - this has worked in some instances.

Good luck - and don't give into them - they are just scammers.

eleflump · 25/04/2014 20:26

Sorry - the POPLA appeal will work - it is just that trying to get the store to get the ticket cancelled may be quicker and not involve as much effort from you!

littleredsquirrel · 25/04/2014 20:33

Exel in sheffield I'm guessing. I'm in the middle of a dispute with them. I sent them a cheque for the four pounds it would have cost for me to buy a ticket for the other space they claim I made unusable by my parking (I would have been blocked in had I not parked in the way I did since their parking bays aren't laid out properly.)

They sent it back returning my cheque but also saying I wasn't driving and so they are ignoring my representations. I was driving so not sure where that's come from.