To be surprised a woman in her 30s can't use a computer?

[ZenGardener]

I'm on the PTA at DS's pre-school. A woman was asked to be secretary so she would write up meeting minutes and make notices. She says she cannot use a computer so it has been agreed that she will write everything by hand.

I was shocked by this. She can email from her phone so surely typing a document isn't that hard? I really wanted to suggest that she use this as an opportunity to learn but obviously didn't.

She's a nice, normal, middle-class woman in her mid-thirties (I guess).

I just was utterly bewildered by it. Is it common? Perhaps it is? I just can't think of anyone who can't use a computer. It's so easy.

You could do O level computing then but it was very very basic.

You obviously didn't take it as a subject if you think that. In order to create a '3 dimensional array' which is what a spreadsheet basically is you had to program it.

I think more than age it depends on school and work, like another poster here I'm 47 and did 'O' Level computer studies and then A level computer science.

I then worked in the NHS for years, and although I was using some technical equipment that I was helped to understand by having used computers I didn't encounter a GUI (the mouse and other pointy bits) until much later and it threw me for a bit.

I eventually went to uni at the end of the 90s, I had a computer because of my dyslexia and arthritis but it was rare for a student to have a home computer.

I am another who only saw computers in my last year of school, and, because I wasn't in the top set in maths or doing computers at o level, i wasn't able to touch them!

It wasn't until I went to uni that I had my own computer and that was purely because I refused to write stupidly long essays longhand and because I made some money on the side typing up other people's dissertations.

I have built and configured my own and other people's computers.

However, I still can't use spreadsheets. I have no clue why, but they just make no sense to me. I must be very stupid then!

I'm surprised it was agreed that she could be secretary TBH, I would have thought this was one role where it really is essential to have computer skills. Handwritten minutes sound like a nightmare in this day and age!

In my work I come across a lot, and I mean a lot, of nurses who are not computer-literate. Usually the younger ones are fine but there are some I would have guessed to be in their thirties who can't do it. They can log on to their work terminals and usually access their work emails but would be completely flummoxed about using the internet, getting a personal email or anything else really.

I'm 33 and didn't use computers at school, we had one but only in 6th form and it was an hour session every half term in a class of 30!

I did an engineering degree so used a bit of excel and some design programs but not word or powerpoint as no essays involved and all our calculations had to be by hand to prove we knew what we were doing!

My mum can't use a computer at all, she never needed one in her job and so it's never been something she's needed to do. I don't think it impacts on her life at all.

I'm nearly 50. We had computers at school and so I learnt to use them in school, I went to the computer club and was the only girl, though it is fair to say that perhaps the computers were not the only attraction.... ;)
I'm surprised that somebody in their 30s can't use a computer, it's a fairly fundamental skill in this day and age.

I don't think she really wanted to be Secretary. It was kind of foisted on her. Apparently there was a woman a few years back who hand wrote everything but her handwriting was lovely. I would be totally shitting myself right now. It's not just the minutes but she has to make but the sign-up sheets to be photocopied and sent out to parents to fill in as well.

I would offer to swap but I offered to be Treasurer so if she can't do Word the I doubt she can do Excel.

The truth be told I went quite a while without a computer as I was fine using my phone but a friend gave me their old one. I would be less embarrassed to admit I didn't have a computer than I didn't know how to use one.

Even my mum and dad can use a computer. I know many 70/80 year olds with computers/iPads etc

Don't be surprised when there are a large number of younger people who can not use IT/Office coming through the ranks in the workplace.

I am an ICT teacher and the NC that we had to follow meant that we were not allowed to teach skills! I actually had a full on argument with an LA subject adviser when she observed a lesson as I began the lesson teaching the skills that they needed in order to be successfully achieve the lesson objectives and for this I was marked down!

Even now the NC for the subject has gone, there are a lot of schools which deliver ICT through other subjects and therefore the basic skills are not being covered (facebook and candy crush saga is not ICT!). Even the schools which still deliver ICT as a subject in KS3 are finding that whilst students can type and copy and paste there are huge gaps in their skills and as the subject is dismissed at KS4 these gaps are widening

I don't think it's anything much to do with learning to use computers at school or indeed at work. My father was a prolific computer user, and he didn't start until he was in his 70s.

I'm 44, there were basic BBC computers when I was at school, and when I was 19, word processers started appearing in offices.

My husband is in his late 50s, works in a manual job and has no qualifications. He can use a computer.

She is already using computers, and given how user-friendly and intuitive software is designed to be, I would guess she likes playing the "poor technophobic me" card.

You are definitely not being unreasonable to expect her to be able to use a computer.

She is making more work for someone because at some point, the notes will have to be written up and recorded in electronic format.

I cannot believe people need courses to teach these sort of things. Surely experimentation and trial and error teach you all you need?

I think it's about whether you are an inquisitive person or not. I am somewhat nosey and like to know how things work. I was born in 1974 and have used a computer from my first ZX81. I am a tad obsessed though, and am thinking about doing an IT masters as a career change.

"Did she not go to Uni?"

Not every person in the world has been to Uni you know...

Spottie - were the boys really that fit in computer club?!

Caitlin - I find your assertion that typing is not a good use of your skills or time astonishing. You must be very important

I worked in senior management for a top tier professional firm until 10 years ago. At least 20 years ago I taught myself to touch type because it was a much better use of my time to be able to type my own letters and reports as I composed them, rather than write them longhand or dictate them, wait for the secretary to return them (grovelling where necessary), proof read them, return for corrections etc etc. Then very quickly emailing clients became the norm and a huge part of my daily work life - and you can't readily delegate your emailing to a secretary, can you? I found that touch typing skills were actually a huge asset and a great use of my time. I could email much more efficiently than colleagues who picked their way round a keyboard.

My current job makes constant use of word, excel and email. And now, in my home life so much of our admin involves email that I think that touch typing is an essential life skill these days.

But I digress. OP, I don't think you ABU at all. I am 47, also did Computer Studies O level, had a Commodore 64 quite early on. At uni in 1985 we even had a rudimentary internal email system - in fact flirting over that was how dh and I originally got together. Work in the late 80s and early 90s involved early portable computers (the size of sewing machines but still!). So I am astonished that someone nearly 15 years younger than me has had no exposure to computers along the way.

OP: "I would be less embarrassed to admit I didn't have a computer than I didn't know how to use one."

In her case, it's probably both - if she doesn't know how to use a computer, there's no point in her having one (though I suppose her DH/DP might have one).

I find it surprising too but if she's never been to uni or worked in a job where computers were necessary perhaps she's never felt the need to learn.

I'm 37, we had one computer at junior school and a computer room at high school. Though I have always worked in roles where I spend most days in front of the computer and none of what I learnt at school applies.

I really don't see how you can say you CAN'T use a computer unless you have epilepsy or are blind or something like that, though even then there are lots of adjustments that can be made.

At least you know she's not a mumsnetter

Even my nan (91) can use a computer ffs. I'd be surprised too.

Using a computer is absolutely essential in every office. If she doesn't learn she'll struggle to get a desk-based job. Every job I've had has required good knowledge of Word/Excel/PowerPoint - there's no training, you get asked to do things and you do them.

Even if she claims to be unable to use a computer now, I'm sure this woman can learn. Its not difficult.

FGS I had to pick up a very complex of software recently at work, with no training. I just experimented and asked a few questions of other people and now its fine. I did it because I didn't want to come across as helpless at work.

Caitlin - I find your assertion that typing is not a good use of your skills or time astonishing. You must be very important

In my line of work, its normal for people who send out a lot of letters to dictate them, because mass letter writing not only involves typing but sending the document to the printer, which may be broken, looking up addresses from files, including other documents which may need to be found, etc. all of which are too time consuming for someone with very prized skills to be doing.

We used computers at school - Class of 1989.
At Uni there were banks of PCs you could reserve to go and work at. It was a bit of a transition phase between handwritten coursework (some of the short stuff) and typed (which I did for the longer field reports and dissertation). Got my own first PC in 1995 when I did my PhD.
Uni had basic email in 1989, and "proper" internet (Such as it was) in 1996.

Anyway, back to now. Yes, I'd have thought that basic skills in Word and Excel would be assumed for any office based job. About 10 years ago a guy (he would have been early 30s) at worked was sacked (it may have been that he didn;t pass his probationary period) for his inability to use Excel at all. He'd had plentiful training, capability warnings etc. Just didn't get it. It was a technical job (architect), no idea how he managed to qualify without being able to use spreadsheets.

I'm 50 this year - there was one computer at my Sixth Form college, that only the Maths students got to use. I had nothing to do with computers at all during my years as a nurse, and when I went to university as a mature student, there was a computer room I could have used, and I did computer science as a subsidiary subject, but that was on DOS based machines, so nothing at all like PCs today.

I did learn to type at Sixth form, but everything else about using a PC, I have either taught myself, or dh has shown me.

Computers today are pretty easy to use - frankly I would be ashamed, as a 30-something woman, not to be able to use them.

Imso well, you should have seen the other boys in the school!
Desperate times call for desperate measures :)

This is pretty amazing to me. We had a computer in our classroom starting in 1986. I started uni in 1999 and handwritten essays were not an option.

I appreciate not everyone has been to uni, but computers have been the main method of formal word processing for nearly 20 years, surely?

Melonade - I agree about typing not being a good use of time if you are talking about mass mailings, for example. In my case I was giving specialist professional advice to clients, and it was much more efficient to teach myself to touch type than to rely on someone else to do my typing for me.

I started uni in 1999 and handwritten essays were not an option.

Ten years earlier, it was optional - the only things I had to hand in typed up were my computing in history essay and my dissertation. Everything else was optional, and until I did computing in history (2nd year), which meant I learnt where the computer room was, it was all handwritten. The only people who had their own PCs were people with dyslexia or other particular requirements.

Things changed massively in the mid-'90s in that sense (I was working in academic libraries before going back to do an MSc.)

PrimalLass thinking about doing an IT masters as a career change.
Excellent - but be aware it's hard work. Probably the most time-consuming thing I've done, just the amount of work to get through.