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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not accommodate a request by a female Muslim never to be in work "alone" with any male colleague?

651 replies

LibertyPrints · 22/04/2014 22:48

"Sarah" has worked with our company since December. We have 12 staff (some of whom are part time) across 2 sites. All staff work between the 2 sites. They are retail outlets.

Sarah is Muslim and has recently contacted me to ask if I can ensure she is not ever scheduled to be alone with any male colleague at either site stating this is to do with her religious beliefs.

The manager is male and 3 staff are male. Different staff have different skill levels and they are scheduled where they are best utilised on any given day/week and so that all shifts are pretty equally shared out. It is not practical to agree to this.

For clarity I have no issue with making adjustments for her where I can. For example she asked at interview if she could reduce her lunch hour by varying amounts and then take that extra time out when she wanted to pray at varying times of the day. Even though we don't normally allow breaks to be taken in this way I agreed willingly.

I feel really awkward saying no but it's really far from ideal. AIBU to think if she can't expect this from us?

OP posts:
monicalewinski · 24/04/2014 22:43

X post with grennie again!

caruthers · 24/04/2014 22:44

men can manage to work aside a Muslim woman who doesnt want to be alone with a man.

Absolutely Grennie....given the opportunity I couldn't see why not.

Grennie · 24/04/2014 22:47

Monica - Great minds think alike Smile

flowery · 24/04/2014 22:48

"And would you support "Sam" refusing to work with a female employee?"

I don't give my personal viewpoint on whether I would "support" a request, and I can't do that for a hypothetical one anyway. It's not about whether I would support someone. My posts on this subject have always and will always be about what an employer should do, not my own personal viewpoint on whether the law is right or wrong. Confused

But hypothetically if "Sam" had a religious belief that led to him making that request, I would advise an employer to consider whether it would be possible to accommodate it.

Caitlin17 · 24/04/2014 22:52

monica you really don't think this is sexist? And if a man was refusing to work with unchaperoned female staff- that's fine too ? As long as it's his faith , not just because he's sexist.

Re your point about faith not being "chosen" as a protected characteristic that's not strictly true.

When 2 protected rights clash there is a pecking order. A Muslim taxi driver who refused to take a blind passenger and her guide dog because according to his faith the dog was unclean was found to have discrimiated illegally against her. Disability will trump faith, quite rightly. She can't choose not to be blind.

The Christian couple running a B&B who refused a double room to a gay couple were held (in my view rightly) to have discriminated illegally.Being gay isn't a choice.

However if this was raised due to actual behaviour on the part of a male employee then I would support her right to raise it and have it dealt with absolutely but a blanket assumption that all men are unfit to be alone with a woman? It may be a genuine belief of hers but my equally genuine belief is that is sexist.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/04/2014 22:55

A misogynist religion is liable to result in sexist 'faith' requirements.

Caitlin17 · 24/04/2014 22:58

You don't see the irony of "men can manage to work aside a Muslim woman who doesnt want to be alone with a man" If she gets her way , they won't be working with her.

Grennie · 24/04/2014 23:02

Yes they may be working with her, just not alone. On busy days there might be 3 staff?

monicalewinski · 24/04/2014 23:03

Caitlin, I didn't say anything about sexist or not.

It wasn't 'my point' re faith being 'chosen' either, another poster said that.

I just pointed out that people choose to get pregnant and choose to have a sex change.

caruthers · 24/04/2014 23:05

I'd like to think a tribunal would sort this out and come up with the right decision.

ComposHat · 24/04/2014 23:07

Oh yeah. .. Monica I missed the bit where you described trans people and bisexuality as 'lifestyle choices'

Really?

monicalewinski · 24/04/2014 23:07

Why does it need to go to tribunal?

Caitlin17 · 24/04/2014 23:08

Sorry monica it was flowery who was happy that a man could make a similar request. It is sexist.

caruthers · 24/04/2014 23:08

Why does it need to go to tribunal?

It would if she forced the issue or one of the affected males complained.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/04/2014 23:08

The Christian couple running a B&B who refused a double room to a gay couple were held (in my view rightly) to have discriminated illegally

I wondered when someone would bring that one up!! Wink

FWIW I also agreed with the outcome, though I was sorry the couple lost their business. They were of course entitled to their view, but perhaps they were in the wrong job, given heir very strict stance

Much the same as "Sarah" perhaps??

Cheers,
Lynn

monicalewinski · 24/04/2014 23:10

I really wish everyone would stop deliberately misquoting me.

I said having a sex change is a choice, not being transgender.

I said nothing about bisexuality.

What is your point Compo?

Grennie · 24/04/2014 23:10

If one of the men complained to an INdustrial Tribunal, it would be dismissed. Unless an employer did something like stupid like employ a woman even though the best candidate was a man.

monicalewinski · 24/04/2014 23:13

But she hasn't forced the issue, she made a request.

If it is not possible to accommodate it due to it adversely affecting others, then she is told "sorry, I have tried to find a way to make it work but it is not possible".

caruthers · 24/04/2014 23:17

Of course it could go to tribunal....and her case has as much chance of being dismissed as a mans that contracted hours changed because of her wants.

What happens when the business can't supply her needs?

Caitlin17 · 24/04/2014 23:17

Would it be dismissed Grennie ? If accomodating Sarah's wishes impacts adversely on him? He didn't choose to be male. How would you like to be told x won't work alone with you simply because your a woman? Even men can be victims of prejudice.

Grennie · 24/04/2014 23:30

If it meant he got worse shifts, that would be different. If it was just hurt feelings, it would be dismissed.

And tbh the fact that some think hurt feelings might be grounds, shows that you are coming from a position of relative privilege. Similar situations happen all the time where people have to work with someone who they know does not agree with a key part of their life e.g. sexuality, marriages between black and white people, etc.

monicalewinski · 24/04/2014 23:34

Why would a man be disadvantaged?

If the business can't make reasonable adjustment, that's fine.

If a business won't make reasonable adjustment, it's discrimination.

Sarah's wishes will not impact on anyone, because adjustment will be made to accommodate her request only if reasonable.

The men will not know that she requested not to be left alone with them because it is none of their business. It is between Sarah and the manager, nobody else.

CoteDAzur · 24/04/2014 23:35

Has anyone figured out yet why this employee hasn't mentioned anything about being alone with a male employee in the first 4 months of her employment?

caruthers · 24/04/2014 23:35

I haven't mentioned hurt feelings.

If a mans shifts are impacted it's got nothing to do with privilege.

This isn't about a man refusing to work with her it's the other way around.

NurseyWursey · 24/04/2014 23:36

Well monica how exactly is it supposed to last long term? Staff turnover for example. If they can just about manage now, what if a woman leaves? They'd only be able to employ another woman if this was to continue.