To not accommodate a request by a female Muslim never to be in work "alone" with any male colleague?

[LibertyPrints]

"Sarah" has worked with our company since December. We have 12 staff (some of whom are part time) across 2 sites. All staff work between the 2 sites. They are retail outlets.

Sarah is Muslim and has recently contacted me to ask if I can ensure she is not ever scheduled to be alone with any male colleague at either site stating this is to do with her religious beliefs.

The manager is male and 3 staff are male. Different staff have different skill levels and they are scheduled where they are best utilised on any given day/week and so that all shifts are pretty equally shared out. It is not practical to agree to this.

For clarity I have no issue with making adjustments for her where I can. For example she asked at interview if she could reduce her lunch hour by varying amounts and then take that extra time out when she wanted to pray at varying times of the day. Even though we don't normally allow breaks to be taken in this way I agreed willingly.

I feel really awkward saying no but it's really far from ideal. AIBU to think if she can't expect this from us?

Composhat does "accommodate where possible" include or not include refusing leave to other staff to make sure she never has to work with a man? Her wish might be accommodated but possibly to the detriment of other staff.

If the situation arises where it is unavoidable for "Sarah" to have to work with a man is she then entitled to walk out as her terms are breached?

Well, I think the answer to that is to set it up equally. For example smears should be done at an std clinic or GP practice where the number of male and female HCPs reflects the number of male and female patients who are likely to want same-sex HCPs (it's not just women who might prefer this).

Maternity leave should not affect men as there should be maternity cover, but it should be paid for directly by the government so that employers don't have any incentive to discriminate against women.

Also there should be the same parental leave for men and women to take whenever appropriate, again removing the discrimination.

Of course I realise not everything is set up equally, but it's the way to work towards actual fairness.

With most requests, it has t be 'reasonable'. I can't see how this is and cant say that I have ever heard of it being requested.

How can a woman work as a doctor, lawyer, therapist, accountant... in fact any job that would mean you have to work with/interview a man? I'm not sure what the 'risk' is. Are human so highly sexualised that they just cant keep their hand off each other?

If it was somewhere such as Saudi when there are laws about these sorts of things, then I would understand, but the morals police aren't going to swoop down on the Toys R Us boardroom in Ilford because a female manager is having to conduct an annual assessment of a male member of staff.

Do you see what causes division between people???

Yes, intolerance.

The stock answer is 'it's a requirement of the job', then she can choose whether to stay or go.

There is no Islamic requirement that genders should be segregated in this way.

nicename, there is no case here at all IMO

I think.. it's so important in retail to muck in, and be a team player. And a religious request that requires another person to join the team as it were, unofficially and without an interview… it's like taking on two people when you only wanted one person i.e. Sarah.. the idea of a chaperone is just , frankly, nuts. And i say this as an ex employer who has been massively accommodating in the past to all sorts of 'unreasonable' requests.. but I just can see this not ending well, were a chaperone to be introduced.. how would any other employee find this acceptable? It's just weird. If a man were refusing to work with a woman… do you think the replies on this post would be as reasonable and understanding?

No Blistory,one religion trying to be dominant ....

I would say that there is intolerance.

Intolerance from a religious person on a person of the opposite sex.

but you do have to follow the correct process otherwise you can be taken to court and loose.

ACAS have very good info.

or i should say, a man asked for a chaperone if he was left alone with a female

Boffin - That is simply not true. There are many branches of Islam including more extreme ones, just like Christianity

If she is one of the more strict types, then surely she would have known this before taking on the job and made relevant enquiries?

Which is why I wonder if this is coming from relatives who are are strict in following their branch of Islam.

And employers reading this thread may well take a view that employing muslims is too much like hard work ... so will avoid employing thrm in the first place

Yes, that's what worries me too, at least in cases where employees have clearly been taking the piss. It's also why we need anti-discrimination laws, even though they can be a bit of a blunt tool sometimes

That said, I believe everyone has a duty to try for reasonableness and that it shouldn't just be demanded of employers. Occasionally there can be a bit too much of "I want" and "I'm entitled to" without thought for the impact of what's being asked for

I wouldn't demand having 8 extra holidays a year from my employer to celebrate my religion, its awkward really, I remember an old colleague of mine kicking up a stink because he had to work on Easter Sunday, we worked in a pub restaurant, I explained that he could always apply for a job that was closed for Easter. If you work in retail, the chances of being alone with a male are fairly high even if your working on your own. Its a tricky one. Are there any guidelines on this sort of thing????

Yes, the Wahabis are hot on gender discrimination, especially the Saudi ones. Here is a picture of their conference where they discussed increased participation in society by women.

Does it matter if she's changed her view since starting employment ? Who doesn't change over the course of their work life ?

Women can change their minds about maternity leave and as an employer, I have to accept it because it's the law but it's also the right thing to do.

She's made a simply request of her employer, she hasn't issued an edict, she hasn't thrown a tantrum. She might have solutions of her own as to how it can work, she may accept that her employer will try to accommodate her request but can't always do so, she may choose to leave.

Why she's being painted as an unfair, devious, litigious woman simply for making a request is beyond me.

I see only men

If she is one of the more strict types, then surely she would have known this before taking on the job and made relevant enquiries?

You'd have thought so. It seems she is taking a bit of a pick and mix approach to her religion. Wants the advantages of living in a secular society such as earning her own money, but when it suits plays the religion card for all it is worth.

Given that she has already cut down her hours, my guess is that she wants out, but thinks she'll be able to go with a bit of compen when she starts threatening tribunals.

I don't think she is, I think the OP has just been warned that it's a possibility and to tread carefully which is totally reasonable.

(being painted as an unfair, devious, litigious woman I meant)

Whilst giving her the rota and asking her to sort it out might sound a bit punitive, I can see the point in sitting down with her and working through the rota so that she can see her employer has really tried to accommodate her request, but genuinely can't (assuming that is the case).

Why she's being painted as an unfair, devious, litigious woman simply for making a request is beyond me

Could it be because of the number of requests she's made in a very short time as an employee? Of course people change their minds "over the course of their work life," but after all she's only been there for four months

Most if not all of her issues appear to have been forseeable before accepting the job, and any remaining ones could have been discussed at interview - only she chose not to raise them

OP's already accommodated a couple of requests, and as I said there really does need to be some effort made by employees too; it can't ALL just be put on the shoulders of the employer