To not accommodate a request by a female Muslim never to be in work "alone" with any male colleague?

[LibertyPrints]

"Sarah" has worked with our company since December. We have 12 staff (some of whom are part time) across 2 sites. All staff work between the 2 sites. They are retail outlets.

Sarah is Muslim and has recently contacted me to ask if I can ensure she is not ever scheduled to be alone with any male colleague at either site stating this is to do with her religious beliefs.

The manager is male and 3 staff are male. Different staff have different skill levels and they are scheduled where they are best utilised on any given day/week and so that all shifts are pretty equally shared out. It is not practical to agree to this.

For clarity I have no issue with making adjustments for her where I can. For example she asked at interview if she could reduce her lunch hour by varying amounts and then take that extra time out when she wanted to pray at varying times of the day. Even though we don't normally allow breaks to be taken in this way I agreed willingly.

I feel really awkward saying no but it's really far from ideal. AIBU to think if she can't expect this from us?

Who extends Christianity in Arab world or Muslim countries??

I dont agree religions should be given special consideration either. But Christianity long has, so it is not surprising as other religions grow in the UK, that they too want that extended to them.

And the rational solution to that is to secularize the state, so that no religion is either privileged or discriminated against.

Just wondering if posters think other special treatments for other religions is also wrong e.g. christianity? Personally I do

Yes, I most certainly do - although while this is my personal view, I respect the fact that the law must still be observed

Maybe this isn't terribly logical, but I guess that for me it's about choice: ethnicity / sexuality / disability, etc, are hardly ever about choice, while religion pretty generally is

I'd also like to see all religion left completely out of public organisations and regarded as a purely personal issue - but that's a whole other thread, of course

it's all just such a PITA, it distracts from work
No one wants form filling, tribunals etc for the sake of religion
Easier to employ someone who won't bring such issues to their job
Unfortunately as OP found out… it gets dragged up later on
Having been dragged into other issues in the past…all I wanted to do was get on with my work, and for others to get on with theirs.. it makes for unnecessary extra workload when someone's personal choices get dragged into it
No one knew I was (am) a practising pagan, I didn't take off holidays for the solstices etc , as a manager my days were not very flexible... i knew what the answer would be on that score, I chose a job in retail, i knew i'd have to find other ways to practise my ways rather than e.g. days off on specific dates
Why does religion have to be in people's faces
I just want to work , i don't care what religion people are, why do they have to bring it to the job

and i do have muslim friends who agree with me on this
And keep their beliefs and religion private and to outside of work

I don't mean that they keep their religion secret
I mean that it doesn't reflect on their job in any way
I feel that's how it should be in all religions
unless you are a vicar, rabbi etc

She was very deceitful in not disclosing this at the time of interview knowing she had an issue that would affect her job directly. She probably wanted to get the job and then bring out this ridiculous request. If she put up with it for 4 months she can continue.

COFFEETEA103----well said...

"sarah" has been there since december and has only chosen to take issue with her working arrnagements now

is it all possible that her and one of her male colleagues are not getting on for whatever reason and rather than dealing with it has decided to use her religion as a way of not having to deal with this colleague on a 1-1 basis ??.

Still it's Sarah's issue....

I don't mean that they keep their religion secret - I mean that it doesn't reflect on their job in any way - I feel that's how it should be in all religions

I totally agree with you, and I have to say that the vast majority of the muslims I employed were just hardworking, normal, decent people like everyone else - no surprise there

Of course we had a few who tried it on (again, just like everyone else) including those who requested a 2 hour prayer break on Fridays to attend mosque. This was easily allowed for, at least until we found out a bunch of them weren't attending mosque at all - they were covering each others' 2 hour breaks at massively increased rates!!!!

"MeloriaThu 24-Apr-14 08:39:43

Some horrible, vindictive views on this thread. I was particularly surprised by the early one about making the employee sit down with all the names and work out the shift pattern. If she had requested flexible working due to childcare and an employer made her do that people would be up in arms.

"

Asking the employee to suggest solitions and not just problens is pretty standards.

I presume this woman be alone with men, just not one man?

yanbu, I would also think this is unfair to your male staff. would you be cutting her hours if it came to a situation where she was alone with a male or his? what about your male manager?
I'd just explain that due to her request if the situation arose that she may be alone with the male that you would possibly have to cut her working hours, as its unfair to the male who isn't Muslim and doesn't have an issue with being alone with her.

She's entitled to make the request. As a Muslim woman, she's much more likely to face discrimination than I am hence why 2 of her characteristics are protected.

I wouldn't have an issue with her request and whilst I doubt that I could accommodate it, I'd have a damn good try first.

As for it being unfair on other employees, I hear that all the time from childfree employees, male employees etc but the fact is that the law exists to protect people who would otherwise suffer discrimination.

Those of you who prefer to see a female HCP for a smear test - is that unfair on male HCPs ? Sometimes, you have to accept that someone is entitled to protection.

And my diversity policy is not just something for staff to read in a spare minute, I expect them to uphold it and support it and would be really pissed off that some employees were unable to see past their own advantages in the workplace.

And I say the above as someone who is a confirmed atheist.

Blistory, your post is exactly my opinion.

And employers reading this thread may well take a view that employing muslims is too much like hard work and exposes them to potential piss takers like 'Sarah' further down the line, so will avoid employing thrm in the first place.

I look back at interviews I have been on where I have lost out to a male candidates when there was very little to choose between us in terms of experience and qualifications and I suspect they were the safer bet because they weren't going to ever take maternity leave. Of course no one would ever say that to me and I could never prove it. An employer will always be able to justify the choice. But, we all know it happens sometines.

Someone taking the piss just makes it harder for everyone in the future looking for a job because the employer just wants someone who will be there and get on with it, not someone who is going to bring problems fir the employer to sort.

Blistorywould you be happy then if an employee with no special protection is refused a holiday or a day off at short notice because staffing issues meant the request could only be granted if "Sarah" was prepared to work alone with a male colleague?

Btw being male doesn't mean one can't be discriminated against so the fact complaints are being made by men doesn't automatically render them invalid. The law is there to protect every one.

Also seeing a female hcp for intimate medical procedures is a bit different. Men also often ask to see a male hcp under these circumstances so no one us really being discriminated against.

I think the onus should be on 'Sarah' to only apply for roles in which she would never have to work alone with a man. As much as an employer could try and work the rota around her request, there will inevitably be occasions when the rota needs to be changed, eg, holiday, sickness, emergency appointments etc

Their countries katmat? Many Muslim women were born in Britain. This is their country.

Also, there are many things you can't help - being a woman, gay, disabled, needing a smear test that will involve intimate examination making it reasonable to ask for a same-sex HCP. Having a baby, while a personal choice (usually) is something that has to happen to someone if we are to continue our species and so should be supported by the rest.

THOSE things do need to be protected because it's a matter of factual reality that there is unfairness inherent in life and employment law redresses the balance.

Religion is not in the same category at all. I really fail to see why it deserves any more special treatment than a hobby. It's your own personal, private, completely optional beliefs.

You answer the request, in writing, making clear that you will accommodate where possible, but cannot guarantee that she will never be alone with a man due to the nature of the job and staffing levels.

Monica - but then 'accommodate' and 'where possible' are open to interpretation by both the employer or the employee and are a huge grey area.

The employee has asked never to work alone with a male colleague. The employer needs to tell her that she can't offer a copper bottomed assurance that this would never happen but would 'try' to accommodate this. That could mean she was working alone with a male colleague once a week (if there was something that could be done by a specifically trained/authorised employee who happens to be male) or once a month or once in a blue moon in cases of illness/holidays etc.

I hope you have a good lawyer. I feel a lawsuit coming on...

And if I employ both male and female HCPs, do I let the male one go because female patients refuse to see him and I have no work for him ?

Or as an employer, do I try to accommodate the needs and then the wants of all employees ? All the time recognising that some are entitled to more protection than others ?

Sarah's request is no more discriminatory to men than 52 weeks maternity leave was to all men. Sometimes, some people need a little more consideration of their needs.

The employer doesn't need to change the shifts of the men working, just Sarah so it doesn't impact on the men. Where it can't be done, it can't be done. But the employer needs to do more than just pay lip service to the request.