private members' club for families

[pippiLS]

So do you think £10 per week for access to a stylish child-friendly club (with tasteful soft play areas etc) is a big ask?

DH thinks it's too much and no none would pay it whereas I think £520 for annual membership of a place where people with babies/toddlers go and meet other mums/dads/nannies, have a decent coffee (maybe even a tasty, healthy lunch), relax in comfort and attend classes with their little ones is an OK price to pay.

Am I being unreasonable to be considering opening such a place as a business venture?

Composhat summed it up succinctly by saying

"I may be being a bit dim but I am not sure what is being offered here: a kiddy friendly groucho club? A sure start centre with a lick of farrow and ball to keep the riff raff out? A cafe with a ballpool and a brio trainset? Or a cooperative which helps women back to work? A nursery run with unqualified, untrained staff?

It seems like an unfocused grab bag of ideas not a business idea"

And you are coming across as a huge snob too. If that comes across in real life it will put people off. It puts me in mind of a business in Edinburgh I occasionally frequented since in theory it was a fantastic idea but in practice they were so up themselves about how exclusive and high falutin' they were which coupled with not enough and inefficient staff meant they folded. It wasn't child related and I was their target audience but the combination of snootines and uselessness was painful.

Caitlin17, why is it that liking nice things makes me a snob or is there something else I've said that makes you feel that way?

My ideas are unfocussed atm, I'm in the 'kicking this around' phase of business development.

raven I am so sorry to hear about your first husband I'm not great at saying the right thing in writing but your story touched me a lot.

OP I can't comment on how likely it is to be successful as I'm about as far from your target market as you could get, but I will say that starting your own business is a huge investment and not the kind of thing where you can shrug and say 'never mind' if it doesn't work out. Some friends of mine opened a small vegan/wholefoods shop and cafe near where I live and the initial outlay was HUGE, even for a completely run-down and abandoned shop in one of the cheapest areas in the country (think less than £450/month rent for a six-bedroom house). That then had to be followed by 16 weeks or so of round-the-clock manual work from six people, all joint owners so unpaid, to do the place up, before even knowing whether it would ultimately be successful or not. Three or four months in they're just about breaking even, which is a hell of a lot better than most small businesses, but they've fallen out with the other owners and are still in a huge amount of debt and facing sleepless nights every day when they have fewer customers than usual. Not to mention having barely any money for themselves as any profit they make has to be reinvested to keep the business afloat. And that's a major success story, I dread to think what would have happened if they failed!

I'd be the last one to criticise anyone for having ambition, but you really do need to be going into this with your eyes open. You have to decide whether you're prepared to:

• do an enormous amount of unrewarding work for no pay, and keep doing so day in, day out even when you're sure it's all for nothing. You really have to start a business because you want to, rather than trying to make money from it, because even if you're ultimately successful you're almost guaranteed not to be making any profit for a long time

• live in poverty and debt for a year at least, if you're successful, or potentially nigh on forever if things don't work out for you

• put your family and relationships on the line (your husband isn't going to be happy if you end up in debt because of a scheme he had doubts over in the first place)

• live with the absolute certainty that all these things are your fault, and have no-one at all you can turn to for help (even if they want to help you) because you have sole responsibility and there's nothing anyone can do about it

You really need to be committed to every single one of these before even taking out the initial loans, because once you're that far there's no going back. And that's only what I've seen from people starting a tiny, successful business, nothing like what you're planning.

Did I read a previous post correctly, but did tbe op say she had no money to invest in this? So it is all (artisan) pie in the sky.

Really op don't waste your time and mental energy on this. It won't get off the ground and if it does it will only end badly.

if you are reading this and thinking 'yes but they all said the same to Richard Branson et al'. Stop.

For every success, millions more amatuers has been told by everyone 'don't do it, this isn't a viable business it isa half baked idea, no capital and no experience.' And everyone has been right.

And thinking about it, even your own maths (which I haven't been following closely but other people have been sceptical about) doesn't really add up - you were hoping to make about £44kpa, I think you said, before paying staff wages, but you calculated a minimum £400k loan - even if your numbers are right and everything goes as you're hoping, how long are you expecting to be in debt for before you make any kind of profit from this at all?

Snobbish ?Well to pick a few.Your comments about sure start , about which you actually know nothing, not being "aesthetically pleasing"; stuff about re-creating the ambience of a French villa; the instant dismissal of even considering trying your hand at tried and tested and successful franchises which work (and which you could adapt to be as nice as you wanted); the Boden party(and what is that apart from a franchise? )

I love nice things and nice places and am more than happy to pay for them. 2 of my favourite places are Fortnum & Mason and The Ritz they succeed by being brilliant at what they do without ever being patronising; the business I mentioned failed by being hopeless and patronising.

I don't have a small child now but aside from the 5 year career break I would have been your demographic and I wouldn't have paid for what you're offering.

alAswad, I would expect to be in debt (with a mortgage) for 10 years but at the end of that time I would have a property. I would hope to be able to draw a salary of about 40K over time. But you're right, the numbers don't add up, my current business model (private members club with classes) isn't viable so I'll just keep thinking in the meantime as this is something that has got me and the whole family fired up :)

Sorry, I'll stop posting soon, I promise But I just thought of another thing - my friends' business that I mentioned keep facing setbacks (promises of special offers that they then can't make good on for various reasons, random closures and lack of stock because of miscalculations or circumstances beyond their control etc), which they get through because they've already developed a great personal relationship with many of their clients even after this short time, and also because it's a tiny little community cafe in a student area where a significant part of its charm is that it's a bit bumbling and not run by savvy businesspeople who can make everything work smoothly. If you're trying to run an upmarket business people won't cut you nearly the same slack - everything needs to be pretty much perfect from the off, or people are going to form a negative impression right away.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being harsh! But as a PP said, better that now than that you find out for yourself after you've invested everything you have

"kungfupannda did you move on to another business idea then?"

No, I abandoned the rather pleasant daydream of running my lovely cafe/soft play/hangout and cracked on the with the day job and something else I knew I could succeed at.

Incidentally, if we're discussing New Oriel Hall, then you're presumably in my neck of the woods. In which case it's the premises that will scupper this idea entirely, even if the other costs work out. There is almost no suitable commercial property in the area, and residential prices are astronomical and you'd almost certainly have issues with change of use.

The central carparks are expensive, and people would almost certainly want somewhere they could park on site or nearby, in any event.

I know a couple of other people have looked into opening soft play/play cafes in this area and it hasn't got off the ground.

X-posts - having a mortgage with a permanent job and fixed salary is very different to having one while you're working full time and still making a loss, though (which you almost certainly will be at first until you get things properly up and running, even in the best case scenario), or at least only just breaking even.

Do you mind if I ask how old you are? Just because that might give some indication of where you are in life and how likely you are to have the resources to think about something like this.

The Boden party was just an off the top of my head thing to consider offering members as a one off service/event and get them through the door. I fail to see how that makes me a snob.

I don't find municipal buildings aesthetically pleasing, lots of people on here agreed that they weren't (nor are they meant to be), does that make them snobs too?

And I've no idea how not being one for franchises makes me a snob. I just prefer more individualised sessions/classes.

Oh, I see New Oriel Hall was just being mentioned as an example, not because you're in this area.

alAswad, I'm middle-aged :)

kungfu, I'm not near Bath, New Oriel Park was linked to as a good example of what a local community centre can offer.

That was me, kungfu

Acquiring that building was the result of a very unusual chain of events - you'd be talking millions to try and do it privately.

Tiny Talk is very individualised, premises and toys and coffee provision are up to the franchisee, I believe - the owner provides the songs, stickers, signing sheets, DVDs and CDs etc.

theyoniwayisnorthwards as you are/were a member of M&R, do you happen to know much about the early days? To quote Maggie Bolger -

'I rented a tiny studio from a friend and called in my friends to help – it’s amazing what a tin of Farrow and Ball and some vintage furniture can do! I financed the whole thing on an M&S credit card at the time!'

Do you know what she offered initially, was it small classes or just a chill out space, both? Anyone else know?

Your business plan aside, I would go like a shot. I am in sw London, can no way afford Purple dragon and maggie and rose would take me an age to drive to. Would love something like this near me. Where do other sw London people go as alternatives?

I'm afraid I don't know OP, I've read her blog (it's on the website) and a few profiles. There's a brand/collective type thing called mothers meeting that runs business lectures for parents out of swanky venues like Shoreditch house, you might want to check them out for ideas.

Thanks they.

New Oriel Hall is just a village hall though, albeit a particularly nice one. There are similar all over the place, I'm sure.

Your plan will not work but you know that. 100 members, 7 days a week, say 3 visits a week. So you are talking 50 visits a day tops. The place would be dead. My children like to interact with others. Also with 50 visits a day you expect 60% of visitors to use the classes, unrealistically high, and if you achieved it your visits will cluster around these even more making it even more morgue like in the periods you don't have classes running. You'd be lucky if you got 50% of patrons doing 1 class a week, so you'll be running lots of half empty classes costing you money.

Haven't rtft, commented earlier on but just wanted to mention 'luxury family hotels'

They advertise a lot on this site and charge a lot to deliver a similarly nice hotel for kids experience. All log fires and spa but catering well for children. etc..

They are always booked up when i try for a late getaway.

I know it is different but i'm just mentioning it to say that the concept of a nicer more adult but still toddler friendly space isn't as daft as some have suggested.

Your big challenge, as has been done to death here is whether you have a large enough catchment of people looking for and happy to pay for this kind of thing.

I think the balance of kid to grown up stuff is one to get right. Is it a space for kids that adults can bear or is it a space for adults that kids can bear.. Luxury hotels is more of the latter, maggie and rose looks like the former.