To not want to look after MIL in old age?

[Knackeredmum13]

Before I start I should point out that for now this is entirely theoretical.

We are looking at houses with a view to moving in the next year or so and DH keeps pointing out places that have room to extend or areas that could be converted into granny annexes. When questioned it seems that he has the expectation that one day either his or my mother will probably end up living with us. The idea horrifies me!

I would never want to live with either my MIL or my mother. MIL has occasionally "joked" that she will come and live with us as she isn't particularly happy in her relationship. I've always ignored her as to me this is not and never will be an option.

MIL is nice enough but I do find her a bit irritating. DH is equally as irritated by her and usually ends up being quite snappy with her when she visits as she doesn't know when to let things drop. I feel the same about my own mother. My own mother would never expect to live with us and has often said that she would never want any of her children to give up their own lives to care for her.

So am I being selfish as my DH says? I suppose I am but is it unreasonable? It would be me who would end up doing the donkey work if such a situation ever occurred as DH is a lazy arse.

To be honest I think, culturally in the UK, our attitude to caring for elderly relatives is rather selfish. There's a lesson to be learned from other cultures in this respect.

Can I make a suggestion? MIL rents her house and uses the money to rent a granny annex (completely self contained) from you.

It gives you extra income and can be taken into account when looking at costs of houses.

When the time comes that she needs care, the income from renting her house will pay for an external carer to come in to feed and clean her if need be, so all you and your husband need to provide is company on occasion.

A separate annex keeps that distance and privacy whilst still being close should she have a fall.

I'd be prepared to do this for both my own mother and my MIL.

Sleep - Yes it is selfish. Because most women in the UK have rightly got fed up of being expected to take care of everyone else.

The reality is that the - other cultures look after their old. Actually means - the women look after their old.

If men started doing this and other things like housework equally, it would be a different ball game.

Well perhaps I'm lucky in that my husband does far, far more for his mother than I ever do for mine.

I don't think caring for elderly relatives needs to be turned into a feminism debate. Third wave feminism is all about choice. I choose to care for my mother as my husband cares for his. I in no way feel exploited, and nor does he. Perhaps if we start to move more towards equalism in society we can move away from this 'you have the choice to choose the 'right' choice' mentality I often see disguised as feminism.

Hell no! And I speak as someone in her mid 60s, so the years when I might need care are nearer than a lot of people on here.

I've never understood this idea that women, and it is women in the vast majority of cases, should become carers when relatives get old. I would not want to do it and I certainly wouldn't want to impose my old, helpless body on either of my daughters. And as for my possible future DIL, why would anyone expect that? It's completely unreasonable.

I'd sit your DH down and explain to him in no uncertain terms that this is not going to happen in any way shape or form.

Sleep - I think your situation is unusual. Most men don't even do their fair share of housework, never mind of care for an elderly relative.

And no, feminism isn't about choices. Some choices, such as being a pimp, are unfeminist.

maybe look for one that is near a retirement development as a pp suggested warden assisted.

if her care required more that that be firm that you will not be doing that level of care so maybe he should look into what options would be available if he is concerned at this stage about planning for his mothers potential future nursing needs.

We will have this but have agreed she will move to 3 miles away (currently 200) and we will help with shopping, visit daily etc but careers will deal with any bathing, washing personal stuff. Because we live in a very small community, we will know the local careers and will be there for company and to supervise things but will still have our own space.

I would be calling a lawyer the second he tried to move her in (as would he if I agreed!)

You can call it selfish but, having just been liberated from the chains of parenthood I'd be horrified if I were expected to then are for my parents.

As we all live longer the problem of caring for the elderly is only going to get worse!

Yanbu. My MIL asked to live with us and we said no as we didnt have space. I felt bad about it but within a few years she developed dementia and to be honest I would not have coped with it. I say I as I knew I would end up dealing with it.

She is now aggressive, mobile and fully able to turn the gas on the hob and forget. It's not her fault but in reality she is like an overgrown toddler with all the dangers that go with that. She cannot be left unattended which would have meant leaving my job and being captive in my own home. She is also incontinent. You need to understand what someone with dementia can be like before you take on the care of an older person.

He wants his Mum looked after.......... He can leave his Job and look after her Himself

in this "selfish age", we aren't allowed to expect (or even hope for) our parents to support us raising our children by helping with childcare, but we are meant to care for them in their old age as some kind of payback for being born?

I won't be living with my parents or inlaws. they didn't for their parents. you can be there for someone even if you aren't their carer/they aren't living with you.

I don't think it's selfish not to want to physically look after others. I'm not enjoying it with DD for example but I put up with it because there isn't another way to have a baby if you can't afford a nanny but elderly parents, no no no.

If you're not a nurturing type then you're not, I don't see how it's selfish to recognise that. Selfish would be to do absolutely nothing if a loved one needed help, but live in care isn't the be all and end all of assistance options. My mother in law and I would probably come close to killing each other if we cohabitated, and she is lovely and we get along. We both just like our own space and our own way.

Just to reiterate MIL does not have a house to sell or rent out. So she wouldn't have any financial contribution to make.

This is all very theoretical as in reality house prices mean we may struggle to buy a normal sized house to accommodate our family, finding one we could afford that would allow anybody to live with us would be unlikely. In any case both mothers currently still work and are relatively fit.

Its good to know I'm not alone in my feelings though.

I nursed my grandmother who lived with me through terminal bowel cancer many years ago. I was pleased to be able to do it for her at the time (I was 23 and childless and gave up going to university to care for her, she raised my like a mum) but it is such a huge commitment for anyone to make. I had a lot of help from the local hospice and mcmillan nurses and even so I can honestly say I don't think I slept more than 2 hours in a go in the whole 2 years since she was diagnosed. It was awful. I don't blame anyone for not choosing to care for an elderly or ill relative at home having done it myself. I don't regret doing it but I wouldn't do it again especially now I am older and with children to care for as well.

You aren't being selfish or unreasonable. Being a carer is a full time job. Once she's there that's it.

Of course it's not selfish not to want to be a carer. But it is also absolutely crap to suddenly discover that somebody ends caring for any you have made no plans at all. Because however unfair, that person still needs to be cared for. And plans forced by a crisis are not usually good plans.

I don't think it's selfish. I think it's extremely selfish of him to push you on this, if it's true it'll be mostly you doing the caring.

You need to talk to him about this, and set out exactly what he imagines would happen. Eg., if she were needing help to wash and dress, would he be doing that? If she ended up incontinent, would he be caring for her? Does he know what level of help might be available (clue: not much, and lots of people seem to imagine that if you have an elderly relative, there will be someone round to look after them for all the hard bits).

It sounds harsh, and it will be an upsetting conversation for him, because obviously no-one wants to think of these things happening. But obviously, they sometimes do.

What does your MIL think, anyway? Does she want to pick up her life and come to live near you?

Care of the elderly in cultures which are said to do that within the family are:
A) overwhelmingly cared for by women and/or cheap, imported paid help
B) far inferior in quality and contentment than the stories would have you believe. Having lived as an expat on the periphery of some of these, unhappiness, resentment and abuse is common.

I like merci's idea. Just put if all onto him. If he wants his mum to live with you, then the bulk of the caring responsibility will have to come from him or at least be arranged by him. When/if he realises it will be bloody hard work then he may change his ideas.

". Just put if all onto him."

So you're not a team, then?

But does the DH see them as a team or is he, like the OP predicts, thinking she'll be doing the work.

OP does he realise what caring actually involves? I'm wondering if he just sees it as making a cup of tea, and doing a bit of cooking. In reality when old age strikes it can involve illness and/or dementia. It can be a full time job, 24 hour care.

Dementia care is like looking after a toddler. It's bloody hard and I would ever expect anyone to take it on without help. There's also medicines to dish out too, washing, dressing, taking to hospital appointments, cooking meals and incontinence.

Is he expecting you to give up your work, your income to do this? Because that is very selfish. I get so annoyed with husbands who expect their wives to care for their mothers, but do bugger all themselves.

DH keeps muttering about this as well. It is a worry to think about who will care for the older generation as they get older and his parents have their heads in the sand about it, as do DH's siblings. But care does need to be thought about for a lot of older people.

However, it's easy to think it will be lovely having an older parent in the house when you've not seen the sacrifices that are required to be a carer. My Mum was an only child and looked after my grandfather when my little sister was a teenager for several years, I was at Uni by this time but it was very hard for my Mum. She adored her father and found it very draining emotionally, she said it was like looking after a toddler, but a 16 stone toddler that was able to do less and less every day. He had incontinence problems so she was up several times in the night to change his bed/wipe the shit smeared all over the bathroom. He did eventually go into a home because he needed 2 carers 24h a day to e.g. help him go to the toilet. She did consider giving up work to care for him full time but was told not to by the HCPs, they said she'd be left with nothing if she gave up work and then he died shortly afterwards. She had someone in during the days she was at work to help out but that was paid for privately, if you can't afford to sort out care yourself then the options are very limited. She then went through the whole thing again when Dad had cancer but because he was suffering from a physical disease rather than a mental one (my grandfather suffered from lots of little strokes but physically he was as strong as an ox so didn't come under NHS care) there was much more support available. And since it was cancer he only needed care for a few months rather than years.

Mum ALWAYS says to people don't feel like you have to care for the the older generation. She desperately wanted Dad to die at home and he did (with lots of family and NHs support) but that wasn't possible for my grandfather because he needed much more care for a much longer time period.

That's why they need to talk about it properly. No point doing it in 10 years time when she's had a fall, been in hospital and needs somewhere to be discharged to today.

Yes, they do need to talk about it properly. I really think the OP's DH has no idea what he could be letting his family in for.

My parents had my maternal grandfather live with them for a very long time, nearly 20 years. In the early days there was no problem. Grandad had his own ground floor room, next to a private shower room.

In the last few years, he got very, very, frail. Hospitalised a few times with infections, despite my parents best efforts. It came to a head when one night they had to call an ambulance to help them lift grandad up off the floor, and by then both my parents had ended up so ill themselves, they couldn't manage it between them.

Grandad ended up in a care home. My parents reluctantly declared him homeless and not to return to their house while he was in hospital with yet another infection. This on advice from a SW, who could see and was sympathetic to how bad it was for my parents. Apparently it enabled the SW to more quickly get a care home place for Grandad.

Grandad hadn't wanted to go to a home, even though it actually was the best thing for both him and my parents. He felt he had a cushy number living with them and closed his eyes to how bad it was for them.

I honestly feel that if grandad had not been moved out, one or other of my parents would be dead by now. Mum was even having stress attacks on top of her physical illnesses.

My mum had 4 siblings, who all managed to avoid doing much to help.

OP, don't take this on without a full and honest discussion between you and your DH, that acknowledges the worst possible scenarios.