To also blame the parents of those who bully?

[stopfuckingspraying]

Last week, a local 15 year old lad hung himself next to his school grounds because of bullying. It has shocked and saddened the community and everyone is very angry.

How can parents not know what kind of person their teenage son/daughter is? I'm so so angry about how vile some children can be these days.

The abuse they inflict to be so bad that a teenager only sees suicide as an option.

I guess I'm just ranting. I think parents should take steps to educate their children about the effects of bullying

I think what you've said is absolutely ridiculous. Caning, are you mad? Thats precisely what schools need more violence and bullying behaviour from those in authority. Shows exactly how to lead by example.

I have little sympathy with people who bully although I do think in the majority of cases its often that the bully bullies as a demonstration of their own unhappiness or attempt to exert control. Many bullies are of course bullied themselves in other environments and often the root cause is them feeling like a victim in another area of their life.

That being said, I don't think we look at other bad behaviours some children carry out and blame the parents. Especially once they get to teenage years or adulthood. We don't generally look at rapists, murderers or even thieves and immediately blame the parents (although I imagine many do feel guilt).

To me its a get out of jail free card to blame parents anyway. Bullies, or anyone really should be encouraged to take responsibility for their actions not constantly attribute things to past grievances.

Well, I don't think the parents of all bullies can be blamed but I do know that the parents of the bully in my high school were idiots themselves. I also do not believe at all that bullying is any worse "these days", in fact it appears, to me, to be taken a lot more seriously than when I was in school in the 80's/90's. I do think there's more scope for bullying nowadays though, what with social media etc. I really worry about that for my dc's - I expect it's even easier to bully over the internet rather than seeing the immediate effects of nasty behaviour.

IMHO you cannot blame all of the parents of bullies, there are too many variables.

But it isn't helped by those that deny what bullying is, or those that insist that it is their child that is being bullied.

I was emotionally bullied by bitchy girls. I am not sure this would flag to some parents. I was very depressed and parents and teachers were involved. My bully was one of 3 children, the only mean one. It did seem obvious to every other mum we spoke to but she could turn on the charm.

She now has children, one of which is just like her. She was 4 when I saw her and was so like her mum I was actually scared.

It is so complex

The parents of a boy in ds2 primary school went into the school a lot to complain that he was being bullied. He was making other dcs lives hell and it all came to a head when he punched his teacher. His mother thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread and can do no wrong
another boy who attacked ds2 on the way home from school was defended by his parents saying that ds2 deserved it because he pushed past him.
On at least one occasion ds2 was told by his teachers that he deserved to be hit,punched, kicked etc because he went into somebodys space. Wtf

Every child who is being bullied somewhere down the line will have an adult facilitating and enabling the bully to behave the way they do, justifying the bully. Often the bully will push the victim into a reaction justifying them to retaliate as the victim deserved it.

Nobody deserves to be treated badly and we should all look very closly at our own acions and reactions in order not to be the facilitator (or bully).

The mother of the girl that bullied my ds is lovely. At thetimetime of the bullying however, she was battling breast cancer and no one knew if she would survive. She is also a single mum, and dad isn't around, so mum is the only parent she had. I think she was terrified she would lose her mum, and lashed out.

If the bullying had been more serious (it was mainly name calling, and she pushed him a couple of times) I might be less understandin

I don't know - DS was bullied at primary (v briefly) by a boy whose mother was a bully. There was another at his Prep and the mother there was particularly bitchy. No big effects and got over it.

DD had a bit from a girl whose mother didn't care, and then a bit more from a couple of girls from her old primary who I think were a bit jealous because she got into a better school than them. At the better school she had a pretty horrid time because there were some awful children and no handle on behaviour although none of them bullied dd personally. There was a child though, who through her mother knew dd was having a bad time and who started to tell dd to smile and speak up and stand up straight and constantly criticise. DD asked her to stop bullying and the rather nutty mother phoned me to complain that dd had labelled her a bully . As soon as we transferred her to an independent school no problems at all beyond a couple of nasty comments in the first term about her being behind in languages - funnily enough the staff dealt with it in nano seconds.

I was badly bullied at school. The parent of the main bully did all she could but she couldn't be at her side 24-7. Involvement from the head teacher, governors, heads of year, parents and finally expulsion didn't work. It's like she was physically unable to stop herself. I remember her mum crying and begging forgiveness as she wasn't raising her to be so cruel.

We have a bully in sixth form here. I know him and his family well. He has a nasty little group that surrounds him, they're not his friends, in fact none of them like him, but if they are in the group then they're not on the receiving end of his 'humour'. His parents think he's funny, clever and just a bit quick. Admittedly, they're not very bright, and certainly not as bright as he is, but they would not believe anyone telling them that their precious boy is a bully.

We used to hav
e one like that round here Dawndonna. Sir PB iykwim - suspect you will

Funny that, Windy, I do indeed!

Thought you might.

my daughter was bullied and the school did nothing she moved schools and one of the bullies moved there 6 months later she dragged my daughter across a playground because she wanted to speak to her i spoke to the school and they told me my daughter should have not refused to speak to her she should have been "nicer" i said that is no excuse she should not put her hands on my daughter they said the bully was scared of my daughter i was surprised and enquired why she scared her it was hinted my daughter might hit the girl i pointed out that my daughter was half the girls size and weight she had never ever attacked anyone never dragged anyone across a playground for example they told me my daughter was not perfect i agreed and told them to keep this girls hands off my daughter in their school they said they would "try" but girls would be girls i told them try hard because if she touches my daughter again im calling the police (she threatened to kill my daughter too) they were cross then i told them if it continued i would be removing my daughter and what reason would you use they enquired? i told them i would explain to the lea that this school allowed a girl to bully my daughter who has a history of self harming which they were more than aware of and they refused to protect her and i had the emails to prove it and it was resolved the next day

they also told me via email that the bully had issues because she was overweight and my daughter was not and perhaps she was jealous of my daughter? i replied she walks over 2 1/2 miles to your school daily of course she is not fat they then accused me of causing my daughters bullying behaviour because i was a fatist i pointed out its useless to argue with stupid people as they have so much more experience than you they didn't get it

considering my daughter had no issues before this girl joined the school (even with her overweight best friends) the fact that they were more than willing to jump on her is an extreme disappointment and i totally lost faith in the school i don't believe my daughter is a bully and her friends back her on this the girl was gunning for her they are now speaking but she is never going to trust her again

YABU

I've had to talk to several parents whose child is bullying another child/ren. Their reactions range from aggressive and complete support of their child to total mortification, tears and frustrated anger at their child. And everything in between. You can't generalise.

Also, many children go through a phase of bullying or have a one off incident of bullying. Not all bullies are nasty people, some are just children who make one or two serious mistakes for any number of reasons and need guiding towards more appropriate behaviour.

The bullying I have experienced was always quite widespread among a wider group. It wasn't the case that there was a single bully, or even an easily identifiable ringleader. Instead there was a closing of ranks, the ostracising of the victim by large numbers of pupils, the name-calling and humiliation which seemed to be aimed more at boosting the credibility of the caller rather than with any thought as to the impact on the victim.

I think children are selfish and teenagers are supremely so. They will always prioritise their own place within the pack ahead of any empathy with those left outside. And in seeking to maintain and strengthen their own position they will bully those who are different, outside or weaker. They are either to frightened of becoming the next victim themselves, or they may not even have the empathy to put themselves in the shoes of their victim.

Any parent can find themselves the parent of a bully. A bully is just what we call the ones who get caught.

Seeking to identify a ringleader simply shifts blame from the wider group to a single individual who can be punished and who becomes the scapegoat for the whole group. So a child is bullied, the ringleader is found and dealt with and the rest of the group who supported and perpetuated the bullying are allowed to walk away, feeling that none of it was their fault and that they "aren't like that" - even though their behaviour shows they are exactly like that.

I was bullied badly at school, but must admit, i was quite nasty myself as well. It was like... Others treat you badly, why bother being nice. Parents mostly were completely unaware.

I work with teenagers who have been bullies in school and although initially they seem very confident, scratch the surface and many of them are just frightened children. They are often emotionally immature or manipulative.
Their parents are a mix of bullies, ineffective parents who don't know how to discipline their children, inconsistent parents who will sometimes be very angry and other times ignore bad behaviour, absent parents, parents who don't seem to notice what their children do, addicts or ex addicts, victims of abuse.
It's very easy to call these children thugs and bullies, and blame the parents. However if you are blaming poor parenting, what of the parents who were poorly parented themselves?
I don't claim to have any answers, all I do is talk to these young people about their actions and the effect they have on others and hope some of it sinks in.
I do know that the punishment s used in mainstream schools have not been effective for these children although they may well work for others.

The problem though bitchyhen is actually for the children who suffer at their hands and I would say that for every child that you support, life has been made pretty miserable for possibly half a dozen others. Often it is the children you end up with who also disrupt and dilute the education and achievement of others too.

Whilst I accept they have suffered from poor parenting and the situation is circular I can see no reason why any other child has to suffer as a result and see no reason why are kept in mainstream schools for as long as they are. We moved our daughter to the independent sector after two years due to this. All we heard from the school was excuse after excuse. Unfortunately, the bottom line was the impact on my daughter's enjoyment of and achievement at school and as a good parent I couldn't risk that and wouldn't risk that.

Some of these children get into exceptional schools and are given opportunities beyond what home can offer. They have their chance but if they don't wan't to grasp it then they, their parents and the establishment cannot allow them to rain on the parade of the those who want to be educated and who want to make positive contributions. Some children from poor backgrounds do knuckle down and do achieve but for those who don't then I think it's two terms, one academic year at most before exclusion. Behaviour policies should not be differentiated in my opinion to take into account background. That isn't how life works and work works and if these children stand no chance if they are continually allowed to believe exceptions will be made for them.

Under no circumstances should the education of the majority suffer because a small minority will not behave or take their own education seriously. I have a daughter who started self harming due to this sort of behaviour and upset over disruption and seeing other children bullied and the fact that grown ups in charge of schools do nothing but make excuses absolutely disgusts me.

YANBU. I feel like this OP. My DD is 9 and some of the girls in her class have the meanest streaks possible....I don't know where they learn it if not from their own parents.

I have a bully child. His biggest victim is another of my children, which is somewhat a horrifying situation to be in as parent. I don't have the words to describe how that makes me feel.

He is NOT bullied at home, we are strict as his behaviour is intolerable but he is also one of four sons and none of the others are like it. We have however in the past been threatened by his victims, to the extent that several years ago I was too scared to do school run alone, or even answer the door to unexpected visitors.

I think I know a little about parenting, I worked for a parenting charity for a while hands on, and Social Services repeatedly assess me as a good parent and not in need of support when I beg for help.

However, several years down the line I KNOW what is going on. It's a mix. Firstly, ds1 has Asperger's and it went unsupported by school for far too long, leaving him vulnerable to bullying himself which became a source of fun amongst his classmates. Unlike many children with ASD who have plenty of emotional empathy and struggle to show it, ds1 happily admits to having none, combining it with plenty of cognitive empathy, which means he has the power to manipulate and indeed has seen off a few TAs at the specialist ASD school he now attends.

I could have made a start on helping him years earlier (I have almost completed an MA in Autism primarily as a means of helping him and his ASD siblings) if I'd been backed by school, but I was lied to and made to feel an idiot. Via the MA I met teachers at schools that can actually help him, he could have had that input years before.

I have no idea how to sort the home situation except to evict him if he is doing the same in 4 years when he turns 18, as his sibling is more severe and vulnerable, but at school with help we are getting there. I am sure there are plenty of people whose kids attended school with him who think I must be a bully parent though, and blank me or worse- even though i fought endlessly for help and supervision for him.

'I was bullied badly at school, but must admit, i was quite nasty myself as well. It was like... Others treat you badly, why bother being nice. yes, there's a lot of that. OK DS1 injured kids and I dealt with that, begging everyone for help. Equally he came home with shoe mark shaped bruises, and was made to pay his dinner money to kids for them to play with him, by these supposed nice kids and school absolutely refused to help me with that or punish any of those kids either.

I was always more than well aware of ds1's behaviour, we got it ten times worse at home. If he'd been excluded or made to do detention I would have backed it 100%, I told school that, they ignored it. I obtained funding for him to have supervision at lunchtime, school asked me to get it dropped as 'the TAs need lunch too and we don;t want to employ anyone else'.

Now I accept ds1 has SN but the parents did not know that, and in fairness it made no difference to his victims. When he was four or five I'd make him make and give sorry cards but then he started refusing and hitting me if I tried to force that. If someone had come to me and said 'this isn't on, there is a place for him at X school that can help' I'd have been made up, instead I felt I was screaming into the ether for support and deliberately ignored for financial reasons. I blamed myself for working when he was smaller, for not working when he was older (I could hardly send him to a childminder could I? and the nursery that was willing to try was told by other parents that they'd all walk if they took him, understandably).

Now, I KNOW many bullies are neglected kids and I actively support help for their parents (typically the HomeStart scheme that could help and employed me went under financially), but equally there must be others begging for help and being refused.

Yes it was the boy in Swansea.

I admit, my OP was a bit of a generalisation. SOME parents are to blame I believe.

I just don't think children fear their teachers anymore. There should be more they can do.

As for the comment about caning. If you don't want to be caned, don't hit other children and bully them to the point where they kill themselves - simple really

But caning doesn't work (aside from physical assault being brutal and inhumane and rightly banned). We had caning for generations, we also had horrific bullying that went unchallenged, certainly when I was young.

Plus, as we have seen on this thread, bullies can behave that way as a result of being brutalised. Physically harming and hurting them is not going to help matters.

On top of that bullying can be very secretive and misunderstood, so perpetrators are often not caught.

As with many other things - teenage pregnancy, attitudes to disability, drugs - teaching an understanding of it all and encouraging an attitude of openness works better than harsh punishment. Not that bullies should be let off, victims should be protected, bullies should be isolated and educated, and helped.