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Original poster

To have challenged this man over a throwaway sexist comment?

119 replies

Primafacie · 13/04/2014 22:42

Took DCs to a local park today. Once there, we saw that some lads had set up this enormous train track for kids to play, with lots of battery operated little trains - it was really cool. As my DCs were playing, one of the guys (let's call him Bob) running it explained that they were doing this for free so as to gather support for a new play centre they are hoping to open, but that I could make a donation.

As I was reaching for my purse, a boy (I'm guessing about 8 or 9) walked up to Bob, holding an engine (one of the female characters from Thomas the Tank Engine), and asked if Bob could change its batteries, as it was running really slowly. Bob's reply to the boy was "sorry, it's not the batteries - this one is slow. She can't go really fast, she's only a girl!" He said it in a jokey way.

I waited for the boy to go away, then I asked Bob 'did you really just tell this boy that that engine can't go fast because she's only a girl?' He looked a bit guilty/embarrassed, like he knew it was a bit off, but then he made a flippant comment about that boy being 'big enough' [to understand it as a joke] and I replied 'you're a big boy, you should know better'. That was it - all said with smiles and graces, but it put me off enough that I didn't give a donation in the end.

Was I rude to challenge Bob, given that he was entertaining all these kids, including mine, for free? There was no aggression on either side.

OP posts:
HolidayCriminal · 14/04/2014 18:19

It would have annoyed me to overhear OP make an issue of it & I would have thought less of her for it. Or at least marked her card as someone to be wary of.

Saski · 14/04/2014 18:36

I probably would have said something like: "come on, you can do better than that can't you?".

But I still would have donated, because either you believe in the cause or you don't.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 14/04/2014 18:57

Would people who say they would have donated have done so if the man had commented that a black engine was slow because "blacks are lazy"?

I would love to know.

Original poster
Primafacie · 14/04/2014 19:19

HolidayCriminal, I'm fairly confident that no one overheard our conversation - it was a quiet chat, in a large open space, and there was no one close enough to us. I didn't cause a scene.

OP posts:
LtColGrinch · 15/04/2014 08:17

Would people who say they would have donated have done so if the man had commented that a black engine was slow because "blacks are lazy"?

But he didn't so it's irrelevant. And it's not in the same league either!

Stop trying to blow it out of all proportion, given the scenario I'm believing that the man was of an age where such things aren't thought to be taboo.

The OP dealt with it well, comparing him to a Nazi or BNP member is a tad extreme....

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 15/04/2014 08:39

Why is that not in the same league? Why is racism worse than sexism?

RiverTam · 15/04/2014 08:41

isn't it? Your gender and ethnicity don't affect you as a person (in that they don't make you a better or worse person), and they are not something you choose. I don't get that racisim is worse than sexisim, both are equally appalling, denegrating people for things that don't make a jot of difference to anything. But we (or some people, anyway) seem to be conditioned to think that sexism isn't as bad Hmm.

That was a very inarticulate post, wasn't it. Hopefully someone will kind of understand what I mean!

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 15/04/2014 08:43

Why is that not in the same league? Why is racism worse than sexism?

lottiegarbanzo · 15/04/2014 08:54

We'll I'd have been the person asking (nicely and with genuine interest, of course) to see evidence of their charitable status and something outlining their plans before even considering a donation.

No doubt appearing highly embarrassing and ungrateful to the 'don't rock the boat' crowd.

Of course you were right OP. I can't think why you'd have any doubt about that.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 15/04/2014 08:56

Someone else who was "of an age where such things aren't thought to be taboo" about a thoughtless racist remark - immediate and complete apology:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7497097.stm

I too think the OP handled it well, by commenting to the man, making him think and making him realise he'd lost out on a donation because of his actions. Sounds proportionate.

lottiegarbanzo · 15/04/2014 09:00

...and my suspicion is that 'children's centre' meant either private play facility, or, well-meaning but very naive attempt to do something in their neighbourhood, for which they lacked knowledge or qualifications.

Anyone fundraising for a properly planned venture would have had leaflets or at least an information board.

The comment itself betrays lack of training in working with children or the public.

OnlyLovers · 15/04/2014 10:28

It would have annoyed me to overhear OP make an issue of it & I would have thought less of her for it. Or at least marked her card as someone to be wary of.

I would be wary of anyone who thought this was NOT an issue.

And on another note, sexism is absolutely in the same 'league' as racism. It's just that we are as a society dealing with racism better now, and calling people and institutions out on it; so casual racist comments are rightly seen as shockingly wrong. Would that we were at the same stage regarding sexism.

Coldlightofday · 15/04/2014 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Saski · 15/04/2014 11:16

I don't think sexist comments are as sinister as racist comments.

Every time I'm in the car with my husband, he manages to say this: Oh, look, there's another incompetent driver who just happens to be a woman. What a surprise. It's funny (to me, anyway) because he's married to a woman (me) and whatever sexist inclinations he may harbor are met with my disapproval. Herein lies one distinction: men and women are fully integrated, whereas the races may not be.

Jux · 15/04/2014 11:21

Sadly, thoughtless comments can lead very easily into thoughtless behaviour, and often do.

You were right to challenge, and you got the tone just right.

Original poster
Primafacie · 15/04/2014 12:59

Thanks for the (mostly positive) comments. I will polish my halo! :o

To whoever said Bob must be "of an age when sexism was not taboo" (or words to that effect): I am pretty crap at estimating people's ages, but I think Bob was in his mid-20s to early 30s. He certainly looked younger than me.

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 15/04/2014 16:42

Yes, because the sexes are more integrated than the races were, sexism is more ingrained because it's been around all of us from birth.

I'm not sure it's less sinister though. What do you mean by sinister?

NewtRipley · 15/04/2014 16:45

Aww OP, don't you know that doing what you did proves women are harridans with no sense of humour?

You are letting the side down Wink

FloraFox · 15/04/2014 18:33

How does being more integrated make it less sinister?

zeezeek · 15/04/2014 20:10

What is really unreasonable is that in 2014 we still have to put up with these misogynistic comments. Ok, so that one wasn't the worst, but it is the build up of small, often insignificant comments that boys and young men hear that re-inforce the attitude that women are inferior to men.

WHat we all need to remember is that talents etc are due to differences between individuals - not due to their gender; for example, my brother is a fisherman - he is faster and stronger than me, but he is also faster and stronger than my academic DH. Stereotyping does no-one any favours.

WilsonFrickett · 16/04/2014 09:34

Men and women aren't fully integrated though Saski. They aren't in the boardroom, or the houses of parliament, or in the big jobs. Or in childcare (both at home or professionally), primary school teaching or elder care....

Saski · 16/04/2014 09:46

I agree that sexism is rampant in the UK. I don't think it's OK to make sexist comments.

I think that a racist comment is worse than a sexist comment, because of the universe of sexist comments, there is a subset that are made between men and women who respect each other but find it fertile ground for humor. I don't think the same can be said for racist comments. Men and women are different in ways that the races are not, and it's just the elephant in the living room if you can't joke about it. (see my post above about what my husband says every single time we are driving)

That being said, I think this was (obviously) a bad and clumsy joke; this guy is probably not great at small talk and scrambles to fill the spaces when talking to strangers. It may or may not be a reflection of the fact that he's actually sexist.

Saski · 16/04/2014 09:50

And really, this is not to say that I think it's normal to joke about men vs women all the time, but that it (in my case, anyway) is a small but consistent part of banter.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 16/04/2014 09:56

Really?

That being said, I think this was (obviously) a bad and clumsy joke;

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 16/04/2014 10:02

Haven't the UN just commented on the pervasive sexist culture in the UK. (Can't link on my phone)

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