To have challenged this man over a throwaway sexist comment?

[Primafacie]

Took DCs to a local park today. Once there, we saw that some lads had set up this enormous train track for kids to play, with lots of battery operated little trains - it was really cool. As my DCs were playing, one of the guys (let's call him Bob) running it explained that they were doing this for free so as to gather support for a new play centre they are hoping to open, but that I could make a donation.

As I was reaching for my purse, a boy (I'm guessing about 8 or 9) walked up to Bob, holding an engine (one of the female characters from Thomas the Tank Engine), and asked if Bob could change its batteries, as it was running really slowly. Bob's reply to the boy was "sorry, it's not the batteries - this one is slow. She can't go really fast, she's only a girl!" He said it in a jokey way.

I waited for the boy to go away, then I asked Bob 'did you really just tell this boy that that engine can't go fast because she's only a girl?' He looked a bit guilty/embarrassed, like he knew it was a bit off, but then he made a flippant comment about that boy being 'big enough' [to understand it as a joke] and I replied 'you're a big boy, you should know better'. That was it - all said with smiles and graces, but it put me off enough that I didn't give a donation in the end.

Was I rude to challenge Bob, given that he was entertaining all these kids, including mine, for free? There was no aggression on either side.

[AlpacaPicnic]

I think you were entirely correct to challenge him and to withhold your donation.
People soliciting donations, and relying on the goodwill of others, need to remember that they are representing their organisation/charity/whatever... And would do well not to alienate potential donors.
If you feel that you wish to support this play centre, and you find out a bit more about it, you could always offer to donate a few nice toys, or an afternoon face painting or something.

[OnlyLovers]

grinch, just because something is or isn't law doesn't mean it's right or unchangeable.

I think there's a strong case to be made for enshrining sanctions against sexism in law just as sanctions against racism/racial hatred are currently enshrined.

partial, Interestingly she was not compelled to start a MN thread about her intervention. That's a very snarky comment. And as Newt says, an MN thread is a discussion. People start threads every day on things that I don't personally feel 'compelled' to discuss or start discussions about. Does that mean they're always wrong or weird?

[NewtRipley]

partial


A MN thread is a discussion, that's all. Are we allowed to discuss sexism?

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

but many people do think women are inferior (drivers) compared to men. so why is saying it funny?

also women are not allowed to driver in Saudi Arabia which is a human rights issue.

why are women always fair game for 'humour'?

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

"I used to have a friend who repeatedly said outrageous things, but because obviously he 'didn't mean it' and really wasn't sexist or racist, it was supposed to be funny. I realised eventually that he was just a twat who liked saying inflammatory things and getting away with it."

Yeah, this. I'm related to one of these. It's enormously tedious.

[JacobTwoTwo]

Yes I have. Here it is again: Every time I'm in the car with my husband, he manages to say this: Oh, look, there's another incompetent driver who just happens to be a woman. What a surprise. It's funny (to me, anyway) because he's married to a woman (me) and whatever sexist inclinations he may harbor are met with my disapproval.

It reads to me that your husband is repeatedly pointing out poor drivers that are women and ridiculing the idea that it's sexist to think that all women are poor drivers because obviously it's actually true. Ha ha, isn't feminism funny.

I used to have a friend who repeatedly said outrageous things, but because obviously he 'didn't mean it' and really wasn't sexist or racist, it was supposed to be funny. I realised eventually that he was just a twat who liked saying inflammatory things and getting away with it.

[partialderivative]

I was watching the London Marathon the other day with my DW, and I made a stupid comment about the 'girls at the front running faster than I could for 10yds'

I am proud to say that DW immediately picked me up on this comment and reminded me they were women, not 'girls'. Mea culpa.

I hope I will not make the same mistake again.

Interestingly she was not compelled to start a MN thread about her intervention.

[LtColGrinch]

Why is that not in the same league? Why is racism worse than sexism?

Sorry, I just think it is! Pretty sure that the Law does too (could be wrong).

The difference between "you stupid woman" and "you stupid black person" is that one can get you done for Inciting Racial Hatred - as could saying that Black people were inferior runners & thus slow (inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group).

[Saski]

Dear me. Have you actually read the sexist comment to which I am an accessory?

[JacobTwoTwo]

I find it very amusing, maybe I'm an accessory to sexism.

Yes. You are.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Would you make the same joke about ethnic minority drivers? Especially as insurance stats suggest women are better drivers than men?

Alternatively, how many times have you said "f-ing male drivers" (with or without humorous eyeroll )?

[Saski]

I find it very amusing, maybe I'm an accessory to sexism.

[lilrascal]

Saski, when I drive with anyone and encounter a bad driver, if she happens to be a woman I would dramatically say "feckin women drivers" as a joke.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Your husband's joke is a bad joke too,AFAIC! still, your call on that.

[lilrascal]

am I the only one to think that this was a flippant comment, poor attempt at being funny and he did show according to the OP that he was embarrassed about saying it.

have any of you ever said something flippant that you shouldn't have?

I personally think a lot of replies on here are very ott. high fiving, sexism, on and on ... much ado about nothing.

OP I still think u should have donated anyways, even couple quid, especially if your kids were playing with them and it was a good cause. if you thought it was dodgy by all means walk away. but you let your hang ups cloud the overall good deed being done for the kids.

bring on the flaming

[Saski]

Now where did I say they were the same? I said it was a bad joke, ie not funny.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

You weren't at all wrong to say something OP, but if anything, I wonder if you actually made the point strongly enough. What you said could be what somebody who is hard of hearing might say perhaps?

I think to challenge somebody it needs to question what they do/say... something like, "What makes you say that? Do you really think that women are slower than men? Everybody does things quickly or slowly depending on what they're doing. I really don't think it's a good thing to set girls and boys as different in ways they are not... do you?

If I was going to challenge (and I know it's hard to do that), that's what I would have said, probably all in one blustery breath. Face the fear and do it anyway (but make it a good one) and all that.

I would still have donated but would have loved to come back with the quip another poster did upthread re the amount... just to hammer the point a little bit more.

Good on you though, OP.

... remembers the good ol' days where we just swapped the toys around; without any adult intervention or guidance whatsoever.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

You think a comment from a stranger to a young boy including the phrase "only a girl" is the same as your husband trying to wind you up and is obviously a joke?

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Haven't the UN just commented on the pervasive sexist culture in the UK. (Can't link on my phone)

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Really?

That being said, I think this was (obviously) a bad and clumsy joke;

[Saski]

And really, this is not to say that I think it's normal to joke about men vs women all the time, but that it (in my case, anyway) is a small but consistent part of banter.

[Saski]

I agree that sexism is rampant in the UK. I don't think it's OK to make sexist comments.

I think that a racist comment is worse than a sexist comment, because of the universe of sexist comments, there is a subset that are made between men and women who respect each other but find it fertile ground for humor. I don't think the same can be said for racist comments. Men and women are different in ways that the races are not, and it's just the elephant in the living room if you can't joke about it. (see my post above about what my husband says every single time we are driving)

That being said, I think this was (obviously) a bad and clumsy joke; this guy is probably not great at small talk and scrambles to fill the spaces when talking to strangers. It may or may not be a reflection of the fact that he's actually sexist.

[WilsonFrickett]

Men and women aren't fully integrated though Saski. They aren't in the boardroom, or the houses of parliament, or in the big jobs. Or in childcare (both at home or professionally), primary school teaching or elder care....

[zeezeek]

What is really unreasonable is that in 2014 we still have to put up with these misogynistic comments. Ok, so that one wasn't the worst, but it is the build up of small, often insignificant comments that boys and young men hear that re-inforce the attitude that women are inferior to men.

WHat we all need to remember is that talents etc are due to differences between individuals - not due to their gender; for example, my brother is a fisherman - he is faster and stronger than me, but he is also faster and stronger than my academic DH. Stereotyping does no-one any favours.