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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To put my foot down with client NOW?

33 replies

SolidGoldBrass · 09/04/2014 10:30

I do bits of copy-editing and proofreading for various people, and I have a new client who is fast shaping up as Client From Hell. I posted about him before when he wanted me to work for basically half the fee I had requested. I got him to back down on that, at least. His next move was to say that the particular project we had 'renegotiated' was on the back burner, and to give me another piece of work, which was a small job. I have done what was originally agreed, he's added more work. I have told him that will cost a bit more, done the work. Now he's asking for more - sourcing material, coming up with headings, etc.

He also sent me his 'book', which he initially claimed to want 'proofread'. He doesn't know the difference between proofreading, editing and fucking ghostwriting, and his book is unmitigated shit.

AIBU to say look, mate, I would like to agree an hourly rate with you and keep you informed of the hours I work, and I will want paying on a weekly basis. He will bleat and cry that he's a startup, that he has dyslexia (I am not mocking or insulting anyone with dyslexia. I believe he has it, fine, but that doesn't mean he can take the piss), that he will give me 'exposure'. BUt I think I need to be firm with him quickly otherwise I will end up pissing about with loads of stupid little jobs for him and probably not getting paid.

OP posts:

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 09/04/2014 10:32

Do you need to work for him at all, sounds like he is going to be a total nightmare.

DidoTheDodo · 09/04/2014 10:33

I'd definitely get rid of him. Nothing can be worth that much hassle.

mistlethrush · 09/04/2014 10:35

Yes, hourly rate, keep him up to date with how much time you've spent, bill weekly...

flowery · 09/04/2014 10:37

I'd walk away.

Original poster

SolidGoldBrass · 09/04/2014 10:38

I need to work for anyone at all who will pay me. Like all freelances, I have been repeatedly burned by non-payers, and I am trying to toughen up, so I could cope with a certain amount of hassle (I think his utter cluelessness about what he wants to do might work in my favour, a bit) as long as the money is forthcoming.

I suppose I am nerving myself up to risk losing the client now rather than hanging on and hoping there will be money...

OP posts:

ScrambledSmegs · 09/04/2014 10:38

How badly do you need his business? He sounds like a nightmare and if I could I would bin him.

bigbadbarry · 09/04/2014 10:40

Absolutely put your foot down. Better to not have any work than to work for nothing.
(Exposure? Wtf?)

bigbadbarry · 09/04/2014 10:40

Or you could tell

bigbadbarry · 09/04/2014 10:41

Sorry. You could tell him you are not a book editor and he needs a specialist :)

StainlessSteelCat · 09/04/2014 10:41

Do it. State a high hourly rate, refuse to do any more work until the previous week/invoice is paid in full and put in writing what you are going to do (eg My hourly rate includes the following services ... . It does not include x, y, z. The charge for these will be ...). Hopefully this will put him off, if not it limits your exposure to his arsing around.

I think you need the professional confidence to believe that this client is a right royal PITA, and that you may well be better off not having him as a client. I have worked a free lancer and I know how hard I found it to turn down any work at all, but from an outsider's view point this guy really does sound like far more hassle than he is worth.

LtGreggs · 09/04/2014 10:42

Can you do either of payment-in-advance (or deposit-in-advance), or cash-on-delivery (don't do next weeks hours until this weeks are paid).

Better to do no work than do work at a loss.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 09/04/2014 10:42

My DH is a self employed builder - he has some people he will not work for, even if he needs the work as the stress they give him far outweighs any money. Some clients are just not worth it.

HecatePropylaea · 09/04/2014 10:43

I think an hourly rate and weekly payments would limit your potential loss.

If you don't want to tell him to find someone else, then I suggest you draw up an agreement and get him to sign it. I have a funny feeling that he wouldn't stick to what you agreed otherwise (maybe not even then but at least you would have evidence of what's agreed)

Based on this and your other thread, and as a self employed person myself, I smell someone who is likely to get what they can out of you then stiff you.

StainlessSteelCat · 09/04/2014 10:44

X post. If you need the client, then be tough and very professional - that includes being paid for your work. I think you need to see any more money from this guy as a bonus, and spend your time looking for new clients, not dealing with his hassle. On the other hand, if he realises that you mean business, he may pay up and be worth it ....I'd not put money on that though

Sallyingforth · 09/04/2014 10:45

I work to a standard contract and quote a half-daily rate (that's the minimum payment), and if they don't pay within 30 days of invoice they get nothing more from me until they have paid.

But they are mostly large companies and understand how business works.

rallytog1 · 09/04/2014 10:48

Have you had any money from him yet? I'd be disinclined to not do anything further until he's paid you for what you've already done.

I could be wrong, but he sounds like one of those clients, and you don't want to be wasting your time.

Melonade · 09/04/2014 10:51

Theres no point in doing it. His aim is to get something for nothing. He sounds like he is already wasting your time - why not just don't answer the phone to him, don't answer his emails.

Or alternatively, tell him he can "buy" a certain number of hours of work from you, paid in advance.

TheLadyRadishes · 09/04/2014 10:56

Yes you need to be tough with this one, but stay polite and calm (hard I know). Don't lecture him, don't try to teach him a lesson - he will learn (if he has a brain) that paying good freelancers properly is FAR better for his business than pissing people about.

I have a postcard with one of those 50s comic strip women on the phone saying "I'd love to! What works best for you... when hell freezes over or when monkeys fly out of my butt!?"

That's what I'm thinking... as I politely type "I'm so sorry but I have another project starting shortly and can only spare a couple of days... my rate for that will be £XXX, let me know."

Or "I have looked through the book, and I think this is a rewriting job, it will take XXX time and rate will be £XXX, or alternatively I can proofread a more final version at a future date."

Clients who think it is your job to pick up the slack from their problems are bad news and will try to suck you in and do things as a favour etc. You need professional detachment. They may well say they can't pay properly, then you have to follow through and not do the work. But then I find they often come back later when they have realised that a good freelancer is worth the money.

If you lose this one, invest a day in doing a big mailshot offering your services to lots of potential new clients.

Kerosene · 09/04/2014 10:59

Bugger working for exposure. Exposure is something you die from.

Hourly standard rate, with a price list of extras, to be paid weekly. Don't hand over work until you've been paid.

On the other hand, the time you spend on this guy is time you can't spend getting new/better clients. Is the opportunity cost of keeping on with him worth it?

TheLadyRadishes · 09/04/2014 11:00

Oh and my other tip is email, email, email. Don't get sucked into phone conversations with this type. It drains your time and energy. Short, sweet emails.

DoJo · 09/04/2014 11:03

I would do what others have suggested - give him an hourly rate/rate per task/whatever works for you and whenever he asks you to do something just fire back 'This will cost £x - please confirm that you are happy with that' and get his agreement in writing before completing anything. Tell him that you have strict 7 day payment terms and will not work with any client whose account is overdue.

I don't think that what he's doing with asking for more is inherently unreasonable, so long as he understand that more work=more money.

With regard to exposure, that's worth cock-all to anyone. Do you know who copy-edits JK Rowling's books? Because if not, then your exposure will amount to shit. Exposure doesn't pay the mortgage, but you can always say 'I am really only interested in work which pays me a reasonable rate' and leave it at that. If he has asked you to proofread his book, then proofread it. It may make your eye twitch to see him mangle the language, but you have to ignore it and only correct things within your remit. That way you have done your job, retained your sanity and been paid for the task you were asked to complete.

RobotLover68 · 09/04/2014 11:04

Good advice from TheLadyRadishes - i read your other thread, the concensus on there was he'd end up being the client from hell - minimise or cut your losses now before you're in too deep

Viviennemary · 09/04/2014 11:06

Let him go on and make somebody else's life difficult. That would be my advice. Unless you really think it's worth it financially.

TheLadyRadishes · 09/04/2014 11:06

Yes rofl at "exposure" from proofreading for a start-up. Woohoo. You are a professional editor, not a desperate would-be popstrel.

Mimishimi · 10/04/2014 10:55

People die from exposure. Don't work for free. It's never worth it and even if he was famous, you don't get more respect/professional status from doing free work for them. More people just expect you'll do the same for them too. More than two weeks of invoices owing? Ditch them.

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