Question about gender change

[lougle]

If someone is making a transition to one gender from another, what does their sexuality relate to - their original gender, or their new one?

For instance, if a man is transitioning to become a woman, and is attracted to women, would that make them 'straight' or 'gay'?

If a woman is transitioning to become a man, and is attracted to women, would he then be 'straight' or 'gay'?

I'm likely to have to explain 'gender change' to my children, but it occurred to me that I really don't understand the 'gender' part of it at all.

I understand the physical processes and the medical timeline, etc. (ie. live as new gender for x period, medication, initial reassignment surgery, final reassignment surgery), but I don't understand how someone who has had gender reassignment would identify their sexuality.

I hope I haven't offended anyone - I may not have used the right terminology and may have been clumsy in the way I've asked the question.

Flora, that was the other example I was wondering about! It would be unacceptable to "black up" and seek to pass as a member of that community, but ethnicity is also an aspect of identity.

Growing up trans in a male culture is completely different from growing up female in a male culture though, and that's why born female discussion spaces are important.
Radical feminists have never tried to prevent trans only conferences from going ahead.

What do the 'nice feminists' (and trans women and their supporters) believe a woman is? I still can't get a handle on that*

Just anyone who self-identifies as a woman, I think. That's how hollowed out and meaningless our identity is. Say it and you are it.

can you imagine if you trotted down to the Southhall Black Sisters and told them you feel like a black woman inside and they must let you in otherwise they are hateful bigots?

Is there a reason why this analogy isn't made more often? Because to me there are definite parallels. I know it's not a perfect analogy but there are a lot of similarities: having black skin doesn't make you fundamentally different and nor does having female sexual organs, but having black skin or female sexual organs absolutely does influence the way people perceive you and react to you and therefore it profoundly affects the way you experience the world.
It would be very obviously bizarre for a white person to claim that they "felt black" and therefore were black and that black people must simply accept that. And people don't do it - why not? If you can be born the wrong gender why can't you be born with the wrong skin colour?

Kim I absolutely do think that something is going on and am prepared to accept that in a lot of cases it's something physical. I've gone through a shitty menopause over the last few years and I know what it feels like to feel totally and hormonally out of sorts with your body. Trans people I have spoken to have said that getting the hormones sorted has felt like 'coming home' and I can kind of understand that. I don't understand why a male body would feel better with female hormones or vice versa but then I am not a medic and have no deep understanding of endocrinology. I can see that it could be so though. I don't think this is the same as saying that trans women are women or trans* men are men. I think that is a different issue with much wider implications.

Can I ask you a simple question? What is a woman, in your opinion?

with there are some people who claim they are transethnic, either really believing it or just using it as an expression. There are also people who believe they are otherkin or that they would be happier if they were disabled. But look at the difference between these two entries on the Urban Dictionary (as an example):

transphobic

1. Treating someone differently, because of their gender identity or gender presentation.

2. Also, refusing to treat someone differently because of their gender identity or gender presentation.

3. Referring to a transgender person, or treating them, in any manner other than exactly what they would like you to.

A: "Check out that guy in the dress; what a fruit."
B: "Dude, don't be so transphobic."

C: "Hey, see that guy over there in the dress?"
B: "That's a girl."
C: "No, it's clearly a guy."
B: "She's wearing a dress, therefor you should refer to her as female."
C: "That doesn't make any sense."
B: "Dude, don't be so transphobic."

C: "Hey, whatever happened to John?"
B: "John got sexual reassignment surgery. Her new name is Guenevere McAwesome."
C: "That's moronic; I'm just going to keep calling him John."
B: "Dude, don't be so transphobic."

transethnic
A person who feels that they should be from a different ethnicity, meant in a similar way to transexual.

Generally used by white people to exoticify and assume entitlement of a culture that is not theirs. Kinda racist.

White Girl: Hey look at me being all kawaii and eating sushi, I love Japanese people, I'm totally transethnic because I think I should be Japanese

Non-racist person: Uhm...that's objectifying and wrong, stop it please. Just stop. No.

That's a shame. I get how upsetting it must be having to constantly defend yourself on these threads. I don't think though that things can move forward until we know what we all mean when we use the word 'woman'.

Is there anyone who is less battle worn than kim who could help with a definition of 'woman' that a trans* woman would be happy with?

Jesus.

You people do realise gender dysmorphia is a recognised condition?

Because from the sounds of some of the posts on here you'd think you thought trans people were making it up.

And you keep shouting down what Kim has to say - why? As a trans person, and I think the only one posting here, she is bound to make it about her. I think Kim has been very measured in her responses here. I think the transphobia shown is terrible and I'm shocked that it's allowed to go on. If such belittling, patronising and offensive comments were said about another minority aka in a racist, homophobic, ableist or sexist form they'd be shot down. Yet it seems perfect acceptable to say what the hell you want about a trans person.

Kim always makes these threads all about him and it's fucking tiring that we're not allowed to have a proper discussion because it might hurt his feelings

That's absolutely uncalled for. Kim is a woman. Whether you accept that or not.