to be really annoyed about the Clegg-Farage debate on TV this evening

[lessonsintightropes]

Mainly because NC was incredibly aggressive and came across as a total anti-democratic liar, and I was forced to concede that NF did a much better job?

I'm pretty interested in politics and was a member of the Labour Party until 2003, keep abreast of what's going on, but have felt increasingly cynical and disengaged from the cronyism and elitism of politics and their out of touch approach from all three mainstream parties.

Whilst I do think some UKIP support is from the very right wing and racist extreme fringe, they seem to be the only ones able to communicate effectively with normal people.

AIBU to be highly pissed off that I don't have anyone reasonable/credible to vote for that cares about social justice and has a viable economic alternative? No bloody wonder I am considering not voting

Add message | Report | Message poster lessonsintightropes Thu 03-Apr-14 09:11:42
I don't think NF is a racist actually, although I think lots of his supporters and members are.

I agree unlike the BMP nick griffin I don't think NF is a rasicst

But to simply keep saying he's a rasicst, all immigration is good , welfare is not a issue Will only push people more to the left

My dad and pretty much most of his friends will vote for UKIP

my dad is black

I mean to the right not left

Retro the problem is that we can't vote labour because of Tony Blair (UKIP owe him the biggest debt of all for their popularity at this point), we can't vote Nick Clegg because, well we just can't, so who's left? Those who half-starved us in poverty as children and love to sell off everything great and vital for life in this country. Green party perhaps then?

I suppose it is just coincidence that NF also stands for national front? I guess it must be.

look up left unity.

Yes I'm actually researching the Green Party and Ukip- it's madness!

All the other 3 are discounted in this order- Tory, Libdem and Labour.Labour is the less evil of the 3 but they need to balance their books better for me to send a vote their way.

My biggest concern is that a senior politician, such as Nick Clegg, is unable to hold his own in a debate with an ill-informed dickhead who makes numbers and "facts" up as he goes along.

Seriously? A junior debating team from any half-decent high school could have done a better job. WTF were Nick Clegg's advisers thinking?

I didn't understand why NC kept mentioning NF's 'taxpayer funded' MEP job. Isn't NC taxpayer funded? Or does he work for free out of the goodness of his heart? I heard him say it a couple of times even though I didn't listen to the whole debate.

Actually found question time amusing last night when people suggested the reason otheres refused to debate with Nige is because they're scared of him. Not true. It's because he is not a respected politician from those in the political game. You can't really have a lot of respect for a Leader of a Party with no MPs and no proper manifesto.

Like it or not, Farage is garnering support largely because Labour have abandoned wholesale old-fashioned collectivist socialism and with it the interests and social attitudes of their original constituents - the working class - in favour of a blend of economic liberalism, high welfare spending and a kind of shrill and self-righteous identity politics. At a recent union convention Len McLuskey as good as indicated that it won't be long before the unions disaffiliate from Labour. At that point it will truly become what it really is these days: a metropolitan, middle-class right-on think tank. This is may be what Ed Milipede likes best but it's light years from the concerns Labour's core voters have. Ed has a real cheek calling Shiny Dave 'out of touch'.

The other reason he's getting support is that the EU is manifestly undemocratic and many people want a say in our relationship to it. I'm one of those middle class types who benefits from mass immigration driving down wages, so I'm not fussed by that but the democratic deficit concerns me deeply and as such I will seriously c

Consider any party who promises me a referendum.

So if the EU is manifestly undemocratic. Why is NF an MEP? Was it that that attracted him or the big salary? I mean after all being a leader of the people's army it's not as if he was an ex city stockbroker who claims 2m in expenses for his MEP role is it?....

Pixietrix - I have wondered the same thing about Farage being an MEP myself. Perhaps it's the old 'bring down the system from within' thing? Not really sure.

Anyway, I stand by my point about the EU being so far removed from any kind of electorate that the only people who have any influence on policy are those who have £££££ for lobbying, ie large corporations. Though I know corporate lobbying has some influence in the UK it's far more extreme and unbalanced at EU level and I am not comfortable with that.

The point where it jumped the shark for me was when they kicked Berlusconi - for all his many flaws, a democratically elected premier - out of his position and appointed a technocrat nobody voted for. This is an organisation that plainly believes it knows better what is good for us than we do ourselves and as such doesn't give a stuff about democratic process. I do, and as such I will seriously consider any party that makes a concrete pledge to give the UK a referendum on Europe.

Nick Clegg used to be an MEP in the period 1999 - 2004.

I cant see the point he was trying to make about Farage being an MEP.

The point he and I are trying to make is that nige has been in Politics longer than Clegg and Cameron et al. Not bad going for someone who isn't a career politician.