To think that the vast majority of people can't afford or won't buy 7 portions of fruit and veg a day

[LaurieFairyCake]

After listening to the debate on radio 5 yesterday Richard Bacon was making the point that it was easy as the portions were small.

No, they're really, really not!

I've just looked at the Daily Mail run down of how much you have to eat and I think it's actually prohibitive financially.

2 nectarines,
3 heaped tablespoons of sweetcorn,
Quarter of a big broccoli or cauliflower,
3 heaped tablespoons of mangetout
7 spears of asparagus
Half a pepper

All one portion

Seriously no one can afford that. In Aldi it's only 4 spears in a portion to buy for 79p so I need £1.60 to buy one portion of asparagus - obviously I wouldn't as I'm not an eejit.

Eating seasonally not so easy either as you can only get your nutrition from one thing twice in a day. So only two apples.

I reckon shopping in Aldi I'm going to need to spend about £8 a day for a family of 3 adult eaters for fruit and veg. So that's £56 a week just on fruit and veg.

Corus I understand, as I said I only go in if I am passing. What I was trying to show was that there are places out there where you can get cheaper stuff but its getting there and the time it takes to get there that's often the problem.

All these alternatives are great but only if you have access to them. Not ever one has a market that discounts its veg at the end of the day, not everyone lives near a supermarket that wants to reduce its produce just to get rid, a lot of supermarkets sell their 'waste' to farmers because they can guarantee an income from it. Not everyone lives near an aldi or lidl.

Apparently for children one portion is the amount they can fit in the palm of their hand.

This makes me feel a bit better as my 6yo and 3yo both eat a whole banana and whole apple a day which is probably 3 of their portions at least. They usually share a carrot and 4 bits of broccoli for tea which probably gives them another 2-3. Then a tomato sauce or such like helps.

It is probably easier to get it into them than me tbh. I loathe most fruit, but love all veg - yet haven't got out of the habit of "carbs first, veg as after thought" which is probably most people's downfall. I think a rethink is needed whereby veg goes on the plate first and pasta/rice/potatoes fill the remaining gaps. It will have a cost implication though, so I'll have to be savvier.

I try to consciously distinguish between variety and portions. So I regularly make a 10-veg vegetable chilli, to give a variety of nutrients and flavour, but I always assume we only eat the equivalent of 2 portions per meal no more. I treat soup as 1 portion regardless of whether it is a 1 veg or many veg recipe. Unless I eat 2 bowls of it...

We grow a few things in summer that we've learned are prolific in our soil - self sufficient in kale, courgettes, leeks, beans, cabbage, cucumber for several months, but don't bother growing anything else. Probably a 6m2 plot gives us that. It means our veg in the summer costs a lot less than in winter. For example, 3 courgette plants for less than £3 easily keeps us in 1-2 courgettes daily for about 8-10 weeks. They grow like weeds! We inherited 2 established, prolific apple trees which means our 10 a week habit is cost free all autumn and we have stewed apple frozen to last us right through to the next harvest. Obviously self sufficiency requires a lot more space and time, but there is a noticeable effect on our food bill, and veg intake, in summer.

It's harder than it should be to get enough veg in us, but I think much of it for me at least is retraining myself, being more conscious about it, and redirecting the food budget a little more wisely. I think 7 a day is going to only be achieved through gradual baby steps by me.

Errol, that recipe wouldn't even feed 2 of us. No where near enough of anything. If i was cooking that for Dh and myself, i would use a whole chorizo, there would also be a whole pepper, a tin of cannelini/butter beans and probably served on rice or with crusty bread.

A quarter of that, with a bit of extra greens, is a big cereal bowl absolutely full. I have it on fast days (I'm doing 5:2) and I'm stuffed with just that. But if I was on a standard day obviously I'd have it with pasta or bread and maybe extra cheese (or the canneli beans or some chickpeas would be a great idea and not expensive compared to meat). An pepper would be good too- well, if you buy them singly for 80p each they're expensive but I got a bag of 6 'basics' in sainsburys for I think £1:40.

I remember reading somewhere that a "portion" is a handful ie covering the palm of your hand - so a child's "handful" is less than an adult's handful.

So 80g is a portion? and 7 portions a day? so minimum 4kg of fruit and mainly vegetables per person per week. That's pretty hefty to lug home on a bus.

I can go to our greengrocer and the prices are good, but it's very time-consuming compared to the supermarket - particularly if your food is delivered - and I can only fit so much under the pram.

It's all easy if you have a car, local places to buy, or preferably both, and time to shop and prepare them. Vegetables and fruit take more preparation than cheap carbs too, and are bulky to store. So those with a car, near farmers, a proper kitchen, and the cookery knowledge will be just fine. And we think it's news that not doing so correlates with poor outcomes?

Clementines, when in season are sold at something like 2 huge bags for £3. And if you don't want them to go absolutely horrid, you need to eat them inside a week, so two clementines at a time is what I naturally eat. Especially as they are both tiny and delicious.

Carrots are vegetables. They're not exotic, but they are cheap, and they go in one-pot cooking perfectly well.

Frozen peas are perfectly fine, and affordable. And go in one-pot cooking.

Fruit and veg can be very expensive, but you can trim it by looking at it seasonally.

I don't think food is expensive btw. I actually think it's far too cheap. I feel desperately sad for farmers and producers of fruit and veg. The amount of effort that goes into it and then storing, shipping etc for pennies. But it still doesn't mean people can afford it. With mortgages and bills taking up 2/3 of your household income, then rising fares, car costs etc a food budget is often the only thing in a budget which isn't fixed. So people eat into that to pay for other essentials which are less elastic. It may mean you have less than your recommended daily allowance, but you still can afford the car insurance etc. It's shitty.

Apparently on average people spend 10% of their incomes on food/groceries (not sure if that includes toiletries and cleaning stuff). I would estimate we spend 6% of our net income on food per month.

Everton, a soup that's mostly veg will be a couple of portions easily.
I just had the remaining 50p-worth, '2-portions' soup with 50g corn and 50g chickpeas in it for lunch. And an apple - this thread reminded me, I tend to forget to eat apples till they're soft and only good to make muffins with.

I think I'd better have a cheese toastie on Friday to balance my diet.

I don't think it's necessary to obsess about everything being perfectly evenly spread day by day. The body's use of vitamins, calories etc is balanced out over several days to a week.

I buy a huge bunch of bananas every Sunday. By Monday morning they're all gone, as my kids turn into wild monkeys at the sight of a banana. I don't go out and buy more until the following Sunday. They tend to eat much more fruit at the start of the week and less towards to the end, but the overall average is still a pretty healthy amount per day!

I am still agog that people live their lives counting units, portions, etc. because the government or some advisory says so. Baaaaa! FGS, whatever happened to using common sense?

So 80g is a portion?
No, it really isn't for most things. The research paper based 'portion' on the NHS definitions - which mentions 80g but the specifics they give are things like '2 spears of broccoli' or '3 tbsp. of peas'

if you work out portions of veg on a per portion basis Errol's meal doesn't contain that much when 1 onion = 1 portion. So a quarter from the onion, half from the squash, 1 from the tomatoes. I think as a meal it's fine and similar to what we eat but it doesn't contain loads of veg if you're aiming for 7 a day

Errol - If it's veggie based stew, ie watery and mushy, then i would need probably 2 full large cereal bowls full for dinner, just like soup. If i do a big soup i will have at least 2 big bowls with bread, and often cheese too. I also get hungry about 2 hours later. Whereas if i have pasta and more meat i can go 4-6 hours between meals. I eat the majority of my calories in the evening too. As does DH. I aim for about 900-1000 cals for dinner for me and about 1200 for DH. I don't snack at all.

Are you very active, MrsKoala? If you do a lot of sports, your calorie intake needs to be higher than an average person, in which case, I can it makes sense for your portion sizes to be larger.

Its not watery and mushy. Whatever the 'portions' ...1/4 butternut squash is way more than 80g incidentally) - it's a big bowl full of pretty solid veg with a little meat.

Guide I looked at said half butternut squash = 1 portion once peeled and diced

I don't mean your recipe is nasty Errol ;) - just i find veg not filling as it's soft in the mouth. I feel like i have to really chew something to feel full. Veggies are mainly water aren't they? (not sure - but they feel it when cooked).

vitamin - I am nearly 5ft 11in and walk a lot (up and down very steep hills). I am large framed (big feet, big hands, broad shoulders - i sound gorgeous! ) and (when not pregnant) usually a size 12-14 and about 12st. DH is 6ft 2in and very active, Gym 2-3 times a week, 10 mile runs a couple of times and 1-2 nights of army circuit training - he is 16st.

Guide I looked at said half butternut squash = 1 portion once peeled and diced

I've just found one which says half a cup is one portion.

OK, that makes sense! You probably can't compare your portions to most posters', then

MrsK - I know what you mean - to make a normal meal I'd have penne or crusty bread. But the 'filling' can be cheap as it would be with a low veg meal.

Oh and 19mo DS has refused milk since 8mo so has to get all his calories from food. Which also is and added 1400 calories a day to find for him.

It's very hard being a family of freakish giants when on a budget, and now having to find all these fruit and veg portions (which for us will be bigger as we are bigger) it is even harder. Perhaps we should get a 'big freak' grant for extra food. i am so jealous of smaller people. I often fancy a swim or the gym but i think, i will just need to eat more after so i wont bother!

Binkyridesagain Wed 02-Apr-14 11:08:04

Thank you very much for the link. It's a real pity that they aren't making more of the actual results rather than just saying 7 portions.

Looking at the actual report, the difference in the results between 5 portions and 7 portions is actually very small indeed.

In fact, if you are a non-smoker you are actually more likely to die if you are eating 7 portions a day.

When I looked at the results, the big thing that came across is that even 1 or 2 portions a day makes a large difference in how likely you are to die.

The really big difference though comes if you can get it up to 3 or 4 portions a day. Beyond that it only really makes a big difference to go to 5 or 6 portions if you are overweight or obese.

Then, as I said, if you have never smoked then you are more likely to die if you are eating 7 portions a day.

An interesting report where a lot of the actually useful information has been ignored by the press.

I meant to say, you are more likely to die if you are eating 7 portions compared to somebody who is eating 5 portions