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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how jury service works

113 replies

Bearbehind · 01/04/2014 22:05

On the news tonight there was an article about the Hillsborough enquiry and it said it is expected to last at least for the rest of the year.

How do they select the jury for that?

OP posts:
LadyMud · 02/04/2014 19:35

It's very unusual for an inquest to have a jury. For the Hillsborough inquests, 1000 people were originally summoned. So that means 989 are very relieved to have avoided selection! The 11 people chosen are absolute heroes.

I was privileged to look around the court facilities last week. Very impressive, but I wouldn't wish to spend the next 12 months in there.

My heart goes out to the 96 brave families, who will have to re-live the trauma of that horrific day.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 02/04/2014 20:25

My best friend is a doctor. She was called.

She was just looking at the defendant thinking he looked familiar when she realised he was a patient. And she had treated him recently. In a way that was prejudicial. (She wouldn't tell me what it was but she said along the lines of him being charged with burglary and she had sewn his hand up after he cut it on a pane of glass.)

She had to get the trial stopped, explain the situation and get excused. And couldn't tell anyone why.

She was on a new case the next day. She was the 1 in the 11:1 holdout that went on for days as the judge wouldn't accept a majority verdict.

Funnily enough none of her fellow jurors wanted to keep in touch with her!

Caitlin17 · 02/04/2014 21:32

Doctors in Scotland can serve (unlike any one in the judicial system who are barred) but can ask and will get automatic exemption without giving a reason.

I have to say I'm quite glad I'm ineligible.

Caitlin17 · 02/04/2014 21:37

barkinginessex if your name is indicative of location rather than status then , yes, England removed most of the restrictions. Scotland kept them, I'm not sure why.

Kittymautz · 02/04/2014 21:38

I'm nearly 50, have always been on the electoral roll, but have never been called for JS.

When in my previous job I would've been overjoyed to find myself on a long trial, as I hated my job and my large corporate employers would've paid me.

Now I work for a charity, so I wouldn't be so keen as I would feel guilty about being away from my work. I would also feel bad if my employers continued to pay me whilst I was on long JS.

From what I heard, although this inquest will last around one year, there will be breaks during the year; it won't be continuous for the whole 12 months.

LadyMud · 02/04/2014 21:45

. . . there will be breaks during the year; it won't be continuous for the whole 12 months
One week for the anniversary, two weeks in August

blackcurrentjuice · 02/04/2014 21:46

I would love to do jury duty.

In England and Wales the rules have been relaxed regarding legal professionals and police.

I have a high court advocate friend who knew the prosecutor, defending barrister and Judge - because she knew them all she had to sit too, despite it being the court in which she regularly practises.

I would have similar issues working in my current role but i still want to see what it's like on the 'other side' so to speak!

Kittymautz · 02/04/2014 21:51

Thanks LadyMud, I hasn't heard the exact details. So, I presume the two weeks in August is when all the jury will have to go on holiday if they want to? Three weeks off in a year isn't much, I get 6 weeks annual leave each year!

Theas18 · 02/04/2014 21:58

I have insurance to make sure the business won't go bust if I get called - but that just covers 4 weeks. Beyond that they'll either have to agree to cover my costs or let me go.

Now I've got insurance I'd like to do it - 4 weeks mostly waiting around or being a jury would be a tonic!

macdoodle · 03/04/2014 00:49

But they don't have to agree to cover your costs or let you go. That's not an acceptable reason.

UBea40 · 20/05/2014 01:02

Hi I always wanted to be called I thought it would be a good experience , I was called last year and defferred due to not bring able to get to the court for 9 am I have now been confirmed for June and it's starting to freak me out the area I live in well let's just say it has an awful reputation I don't worry about doing the jury service I find myself worrying about being recognised after it :-( also I am self employed and without an accountant I cannot claim so will be souly on my tax credits plus pay my bus fares 2 each day until end when I can claim them back and no weekly tickets allowed incase u don't last a week , I'm filled with dread and I can't sleep over it :-(

UBea40 · 20/05/2014 01:08

I can't even imagine year long they must be wanting to yell out :-0

SomethingOnce · 20/05/2014 01:30

I got a deferral because I was EBFing.

Then I dodged a long trial because of childcare responsibilities. We were called one by one to go and stand in front of the judge and give any reasons why we wouldn't be able to do it.

Redglitter · 20/05/2014 01:37

There's no way a serving police officer should be on a jury! Wonder what on earth they were thinking of not getting excused

Ludoole · 20/05/2014 01:43

Personally id hate to be on jury service. I would feel uncomfortable judging someone as i have that problem in my own life. Id always wonder if i made a mistake and it would bother me for a long time. God willing i will avoid it.

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 20/05/2014 07:24

BluesBaby is wrong to say that the Judge chooses the people who look most reliable. Their clerk does it and it's random.

Eastpoint · 20/05/2014 07:36

I was called & said I could do it, then DH had to travel abroad for work and I wrote & explained our circumstances - 3 children, at that point 3 different schools & a dog to walk before getting there for 9. No family in the area and no childcare in place as a Sahm so I was excused.

Andrewofgg · 20/05/2014 07:47

Caitlin7 In England the lawyers and police are now eligible to serve.

These long-case juries are often made up of retired people and people with no job and no child-care responsibilities - not an ideal cross-section of society.

juneybean · 20/05/2014 07:59

How is it some people get called numerous times and others not at all?

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat · 20/05/2014 08:01

I did jury service a couple of years ago. I was given the initial two week period and arranged my work schedule around that. About a day or two before I was due to start, I received a letter from the court informing me that there was a 6 week trial scheduled to start during the relevant period.

I wasn't keen on the idea of jury service anyway (not interested enough and resentful of the time imposition) and got my Department Head to write a letter stating that I could not be absent from work for such an extended period with such short notice as it would adversly impact our work and clients.

When juries are selected for individual trials they pick more than 12 and then whittle down the numbers removing any that know the defendant etc. I was one of 24? picked for the six week trial and managed to argue with my letter that it would adversly affect my employer, which the judge grudgingly accepted. Others managed to get out of it as one or two had a tenuous link to the defendants, another was a carer to a relative, some were self employed and would have lost their business if off for such a period and some had pre-booked holidays. I do remember that one of the jurors for that trial was a primary school teacher, so presumably her school would have had to get a supply teacher in? If she had been a GCSE/A Level teacher, I don't know if she would have been able to get out of it, citing impact on the education of her students?

I was given paid special leave by my employer (public sector, so it just saves administration) but the maximum rate the Court Service pays isn't very much, so many people will be out of pocket if they serve and aren't paid, although I suppose it might be possible to take annual leave instead?

My experience was that the whole process is very inefficent and a massive waste of time, especially for jurors. I was on 2 juries for trials that took about 3 days in total and the rest of the time was just spent sitting around. Facilities for jurors weren't very good either, with no desks where you could work, right in the middle of a large building so no internet access, but WiFi was avaialble at an extortionate rate. Refreshements were also very poor quality and expensive, but they did pay a small daily meal allowance and travel expenses.I endured my 2 weeks and I can't imagine having to do it for for a long, high profile case, with the impact it has on life/employer etc.

Coulsonlives · 20/05/2014 08:04

Does location have anything todo with frequency of being called?

We have a magistrates court here but bigger courts are over an hour away which will massively increase the people 'in catchment' to calm on.

Just wondering as I'm the only one I know that has ever been called (& I defered due to being 8 months pg with dd2-now 13!)

londonrach · 20/05/2014 08:08

Don't know anyone who done Jury service. I work nhs and no patients have ever mentioned it and none of my extended family or friends been called. Strange. Thought you had to express interest.

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat · 20/05/2014 08:48

London You don't need to express interest, and everyone on the electoral role (I think that is the criteria) can be called, and unless you are excused (eg criminal record, mental health etc) you must do it, unless you can get it deferred, for one of the reasons already mentioned.

Given the choice, I wouldn't have done it. As well as being a huge waste of time, I found all the defence and prosecution arguments enormously confusing (I understand that this may be the whole point) to the extent that in one trial, I didn't have a fucking clue whether or not he had done it so had to vote 'not guilty' - you only say guilty if the evidence says 'beyond reasonable doubt'. In that case, the jury discussed it for so long that the judge went on a majority rather than an absolute verdict (I think it was something like 10/2 in favour of guilty).

However, I do have concerns about the robustness of some verdicts. In the above case, I strongly suspect that some jurors voted guilty because 'he looked like the type' and they were bored with going round in circles with the arguments and just wanted to go home (seriously).

In the jury room, its a bit like who shouts the loudest and takes control of the room, and that's not always the person that is correct.

The case was an assault that evolved from some drunken silliness (throwing objects that hit someone - there was no evidence of 'intent') and the kind of thing that TBH, many of us have probably been involved in at one time or other. The defendant was one of a group of about 8 people, identified by a pensioner with poor eyesight looking out of his bedroom window on a dark and rainy night.

I also wonder if the average person is 'qualified' to be a juror. I am a degree educated professional of above average intelligence and I found the whole process really mentally taxing, despite concentrating hard throughout. Considering that the country's biggest selling newspaper is The Sun, and the rise of political parties such as UKIP/BNP etc, is the 'majority' able to make an informed decision on whether someone should go to prison?

In the other trial we didn't even get a verdict, because, despite it being a fairly simple case, we could not agree and could not give a verdict (the defendant was charged with dangerous driving, which IMHO he was absolutely guilty of but he was trying to get off on a technicality and half of the jury believed his bullshit excuse). I don't know what happened to that case afterwards.

My mum has done it, as have several of my colleagues (I would estimate 4 or 5 including me, out of a 40 person office) that I know of.

One of my colleagues got picked for a high profile murder trial, and was in two minds whether or not to do it, because it would have been interesting, but in the end, she decided not to do it because it would have meant three months of work, which is a disaster for us. Again, she was able to cite the negative impact of approx 2/3 months away from work.

Perhaps the location does have an impact on the chance of being called up. I wonder what the furthest you might have to travel would be? Is everyone in catchment?

Where would you serve if you lived on a remote Scottish island, or in the Scilly Islands for example? I assume that you would have to stay near to the court rather than travel each day?

PeppermintInfusion · 20/05/2014 09:47

I have managed to be excused each time I've been called up- for an exam, a holiday and starting a new job. I've never been questioned with more indepth details as they seemed quite willing to accept it.
A colleague recently just got HR to explain she couldn't miss work for a lengthy time and I know self-employed (who have no other staff) who've been excused also.
I think if you have, or indeed want Wink, a reason it's worth a shot if you don't want to attend. The worst they can say is no.

specialsubject · 20/05/2014 09:50

I did it - was lucky in many ways, at the time I worked for a big company that kept paying me and the court hours of 9-4 with a whole hour for lunch felt like a holiday from the real world!

I was also fortunate that there were 3 cases fitting exactly in my fortnight, so I wasn't sitting around, and they were also relatively simple things; I still cannot understand why two of them were even in the court with a full jury. Apparently there was an extremely distressing rape trial going on at the same time, I am grateful that I did not have to do that and have sympathy for those that did.