to think therapy/counselling isn't always the answer to MH conditions?

[sittinonthetopofthebay]

Two family members have tried it and have had no joy, as have I, years ago now thankfully.

Yet it is often bandied about as the one definitive answer to all MH problems: I am not being unreasonable, or am I, in thinking this is misleading and inappropriate?

Well, it helped me. It also helped my brother (who has schizophrenia- albeit mainly negative symptoms!) to learn coping mechanisms and when to recognise early warning signs iyswim? CBT worked really well in different ways for us, but counselling for me was kind of a bit too weak.

Agree with Laurie

I am a therapist and work with clients short and long term. With my clients I work with for bereavement they get 12 weeks. At times this is extended but it just is not enough time but because of funding it has to be

I think many people do not understand what a roller-coaster ride counselling can be, you will often feel worse before feeling better and then of course there can be resistance just this can take a long time to work through

My therapy was very specialised targeted therapy for borderline personality disorder (which had been mis-diagnosed as bipolar, minor depression, major depression and faking it over several years).

It got me away from self harm, addiction, depression, dissociation and mood swings.

But it was very much aimed at me as a unique individual. I was incredibly lucky to access it (after a rather nasty dissociative/suicidal event) on the nhs, it was and continues (4 monthly rather than twice a week at the start) to be free for me.

I'll probably be under psychology review (annually) for the rest of my life. Which means I'm on the list and can call up if I need help.

This level of care should be available everywhere. I just know I lucked out - and honestly, that's why I'm still here!

I think it's such a personal journey that along the way some things help and some don't.

nothing is a panacea.

I had CBT but was too depressed to do the 'homework'.

I also had Psychologist therapy which was helpful; but I was still to unwell to benefit much from it.

I was referred to DBT for 'Borderline Personality disorder' - the therapist there discovered I only have 'traits' and that I was in fact suffering an acute Psychotic episode.

Now I'm on high dose ADs (Venlafaxine) and Anti-Psychotics (Aripiprazole) I'm a lot better.

I'm puzzled as to what is actually wrong with me though, all I've been told is that I've got Recurrent Depressive disorder and 'traits' of BPD, yet I'm supposed to stay on the Anti-Psychotic long term.

surely it depends on the condition and cause there are so many it will never be a one solution fits all - for some talking to a psychologist or psychiatrist might just be the start of establishing what is wrong and how it needs to be treated - and counselling isn't the only therapy cbt is very different to counselling. Some may be due to hormonal or chemical imbalances or genetic causes - maybe therapies can help with coping mechanisms or self realisation techniques so you can recognise when you need help or extra medication, counselling to come to terms with what is happening or a traumatic experience.

surely the best advice can be just to seek help from a professional.

I had CBT and it was a little bit helpful but not very. I didn't want to take medication, but the dr finally convinced me I should just try it. ADs were amazing for me.

I do think its a combination of the two which is the most successful. But I dont understand how talking therapies can cure depression, which is a chemical imbalance.

because depression is not a chemical imbalance, this was only a theory that the pharmaceutical companies used to their advantage

My view has been that taking the drugs without tackling the issues that have contributed to the depression is not a full solution - unless you want to be on drugs for the rest of your life.

Having said that, talking therapy didn't do much for me, but psychodrama has been superb. Also getting a dog...

Freudian- what are the tablets doing then, to make you feel better?

It depends wholly on the personality of the therapist ime

I have been thru it twice, once as a chikd and the therapist was lovely and then once as an adult. The therapist I saw as an adult was a trainee and completely focused on everything being down to "daddy issues" which drove me demented. I hated it because every exercise was angled towards getting the answers she wanted.

It isn't a one fits all cure but in the right circumstances it can be very helpful

it is not known how they exactly work but the chemical imbalance has now more or less (in regards to depression) been dismissed but not that ad's do work in making some people feel better, but not curing depression. it is believed the increase of neurotransmitters can make you feel better and this is what they are believed to do (its all very complex very good explanations on royal college of psychiatrists) but when that is for around 60% and around 30% of people taking a placebo are also having positive results what is really happening

it makes it sound simple take a tablet and all will be better you have a cure. depression is far far more complex than that

Completely depends on the issue, who you see and what you are like BUT I agree, it is not all it is made out to be and very hard to find a good counsellor.
Especially straightforward talking counselling IMO does nothing for me other than uncover the issue but then continues to go over and over and often make the patient worse in the process or uncover things they weren't worried about but now are!
I've met a few very 'wet lettuce' counsellors who make you feel like you are talking to a brick wall and who never say much. I know it is their way of working, but for me I want action and someone to move me forward, not someone to just sympathise with me!

I've found a CBT or support worker type person is better. Someone who listens but also advises you and helps you move forward with practical advice and a bit of a reality check, rather than just uncovers the past. At the end of the day lots of our problems from childhood or whatever else are not things we can solve or cure or change in any way. Yes talking and sharing it can help, but it is rarely going to completely solve the issues and reasons why it is affecting you now.

As I said, it really does depend what the issue is though and what you are like as a person. This is just my experiences that I have drawn upon.

It can be really beneficial as long as the conditions are right. Finding the right therapist is key. It's difficult to be honest with someone you don't trust. It takes time. Sometimes 6 sessions are enough, often more are needed. Also some therapists are shit. I say this as a therapist.

"Mental health" is so vague. So any sweeping suggestion for treating "mental health conditions" is going to be meaningless.

It's like suggesting physio for physical health conditions. Great for someone recovering from a limb fracture, redundant for a bout of cystitis.

I think talk therapy can be tremendously useful for some people who are not very introspective and haven't seen the patterns in their own behaviour that they are repeating from their childhood or whatever.

But if you do understand that inside out, literally, and still can't break free, then it is just very tiresome having the bloody obvious pointed out to you at great length as if it's an astonishing revelation.

I used to be very suspicious of mind-altering drugs and would have loved to find a therapist who would understand. Never happened, so now I just want a doctor who will hand over some magic pills and be short on the verbals.

It depends on the reason behind the MH issue.

I had counselling a few years ago. It was shite. Think the counsellor had been on a 2 day course or something. Quite how this qualified her to counsel me on my MH problem, goodness only knows. AD therapy, however, did the trick

I think it varies. DH was having regular counselling, but he didn't really start improving until he had a low-dose AD to go alongside that. It's transformed him, it's like having the man I married back. Maybe he would have got there on talking therapy alone, but I wasn't confident.

There is evidence that CBT alone can help people with psychosis, by the way. The study in question is very recent and is a pilot trial, but in a particular group of people (people with psychosis who are finding medication unacceptable) it is bringing about improvements which are statistically very significant. However, this is a very specific group of people for whom the antipsychotics are either not working or are causing such severe side effects that the cure is worse than the disease.

KellyHopter Tue 01-Apr-14 00:04:13
""Mental health" is so vague. So any sweeping suggestion for treating "mental health conditions" is going to be meaningless.

It's like suggesting physio for physical health conditions. Great for someone recovering from a limb fracture, redundant for a bout of cystitis."

This.

For younger people CAHMS, who provide therapy, can also prescribe medication if the therapy doesn't work, or provide therapy together with medication, and advocate with schools and other institutions. They have far more clout than a GP. So "getting therapy" for your child can be a kind of short-hand for accessing a package. Dd has had the lot and though I couldn't tell you which bit has been the crucial item, something has evidently worked.

Another thing I found when I had counselling at work a few years ago is that you have to be prepared to ask to change a counsellor if it really isn't working. The first one I had looked so shattered when I told her of my home situation that I went straight to the receptionist and asked for a new one: "if anyone cries in these sessions it's going to be me".

Again, we had to be a bit pushy to get the right therapy for dd.

Definitely agree with changing counsellor if needed! I had one who I felt twisted what I was saying to suit what she felt my problems were. The final straw was when she told me to take a valium and get over myself - given that I had been fast tracked for counselling because I had very advanced suicicdal thoughts, telling me to go and get a prescription for a drug that I could use to kill myself was idiocy. In my view.

Completely agree with aermingers and LesserOfTwoWeevils. Therapy will help some people, but for many other sufferers drug therapy will make the most difference. There is no "one size fits all".

I think it depends on the person the therapy and the condition tbh my friend tried CBT she hated it and never went back she felt scared and intimitated she said, so while these therapies are great for some not others, I would rather chew my arm off than go for talk therapy if it was suggested for me ,