AIBU to think there is no sound reason that justifies a primary school having an "every scheme book must be read within each stage/level" policy?

[diamondage]

Reading schemes - yes, I know, it's not a sexy thread

DC has never been to a school with this policy, however it is a re-occurring issue that pops up on the primary forum and I've yet to read a thread where a parent posts, "yay, teacher says DC gets to read every single scheme book before they can move up a level" but I am interested in hearing if anyone has felt this way.

Of course I'm not saying there are no reasons for this policy, although so far I can only come up with the idea that it might make a teacher's life a bit easier by removing the need to assess children for reading books and consequently reduce the need to deal with mums asking for their DC to be reassessed due to believing their DC is on the wrong book band.

Just to be clear this isn't about teacher's professional views about which book band child X should be reading because in that scenario the teacher is assessing the child to reach their view.

It is about trying to understand how such a rigid policy, that doesn't allow for differentiation because every child must read the same amount of books, is best for the DCs attending.

If there are any primary teachers, TAs, Literacy Co-ordinators or even Heads (and parents) that are willing to tell me if and why IBU, and explain the benefits to DCs of this policy then thank you in advance.

Yes. It means that by becoming free readers in y3/4 they didn't get to read for example, abridged versions of black beauty and david Copperfield and Jane Eyre (due to content not being appropriate).

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It is such a shame. We try to encourage them to read a range but their parents are insistent that they are now free readers so can choose! I would much rather my child worked their way through content appropriate books, experiencing a real range of genre.
This helps with extending vocabulary; understanding the world around them; reading a variety of sentence structures and using them in their writing.

We have a really good range of books in our reading scheme and I would love all children to experience the. Right until the end of Y6 and not worry about speeding through the reading scheme. The children that make the most progress from y2-6 tend to plod through it.

Ah, Biff, Chip, Kipper and Floppy are but a dim and distant memory now. I loved them and the subtle humour.

The wilds... That's really interesting. At what sort of level is it more important to spend a while on the books? Presumably the first few levels are just consolidating phonics knowledge (we're only in reception but already reading level 4 with no problems) I can see your point. There's no point my girl flying off the scheme in yr1 if she hasn't read books yet that aren't age appropiate. I completely see the point at higher levels of reading a variety etc. When does that kick in?

oh for a minute I though I was going to have to name change rapidly as you were a parent at the dc's school.

dd had to read every single book in the scheme, at least for a bit. it got to the point where I gave her the book, asked her to read the information for parents front and back, then follow the instructions herself. Sounding out the name of the author illustrator was the most challenging thing about the book.

For a while the books ds were given were too hard, and not phonetically decodable. I ignored them. I am ignoring them now again. he is still chugging his way through the scheme. They are now too easy. At some point that I must have missed they would have been the right level, but hey ho.

Dd is still chugging her way through a different level of the scheme. I do hear her read occasionally and use the books to do some sort of comprehension skill. She spends about an hour a day reading non-fiction books from our mini-library.

oh my goodness, Roger Red Hat... they were ancient 20 years ago. Are you sure it is not a historical artefact!

I am an ex teacher so just ignore school books and get on with teaching dcs myself.

When the school books are good though, I use them. no point reinventing the wheel.

Thewilds this seems a valid point however I think you are conflating two issues. Namely the speed with which a child should progress through a scheme (which I think should be teacher assessed not down to reading a set number of books) and a, dare I say it, lazy approach to free reading by too many schools.

Some schools have schemes that run to a year 6 level for example. Or how about having a policy that states free readers must alternate between fiction, non-fiction, poetry & plays, or provide appropriate reading lists, challenges & rewards.

But making children plod through countless books at the earlier stages if they don't need to as a way of ensuring poor habits don't develop in early free readers - there's got to be a better way?

thewilds Why on earth would anyone need an abridged version of Black Beauty in Y3/4?

I think there can be value in reading an abridged version of certain works a few years in advance of reading the real thing, in order to become more familiar with the storyline before having to tackle language etc.

The classics stage 16 pack is fantastic for children who stay on the scheme. it really helps develop their reading comprehension skills.

I would love children to just pick up a copy (through choice) of Dickens, Sewell, Austen etc but unfortunately most tend to stuck with the same authors (as did I as a child!) and J Wilson etc are the fabourites. There is wrong with them of course but it really does show when children read a range of text types.
I would love to have the time in a v crowded primary curriculum to allow the children to just read - for however long they want. unfortunately we have to rely on them to do a lot of the reading at home and many just do not have access to the range of books that we have in our scheme.
It feels as if some parents want to race through the whole reading aloud thing in KS1, get them to free readers and think that the job is done in terms of supporting their reading, there is SO much more to it that that!

Diamondage-our scheme does run from rec -y6 but some children speed through, skipping stages so they don't get to read the later stages because they are not appropriate at the time (Jekyll and Hyde etc!).

This may well be a lazy approach to free reading but it is the case in many schools because there aren't enough good quality 'scheme' books to keep every child challenged at their 'decoding' level whilst matching it to their comprehension/content appropriate reading level.

I still remember with loathing the temporary teacher (took over my class for a term) who made me go back and finish the last 10 or so books in the Ladybird reading scheme when I was six.

By that time out of school I had read things like the Hobbit and Watership Down, but she forced me to go back and read them at what felt like a snail's pace (I could have read all 10 in half an hour flat, but I had to do them one at a time and be signed off), to get them all ticked off before I was allowed to go back to the free reader's shelf, where I had already spent the previous six months peeling off the coloured labels on the hardest books so I could pretend they were the easiest ones, which were all I was allowed at age 6.

That teacher had a damn good go at putting me off reading, but luckily she did not succeed.

My 33 year-old read Roger Red Hat!

I think you need to have a word with the teacher...

Nanny I have, she said there is nothing she can do. The fact that the books are 30 (plus?) Years old doesn't bother me in the slightest, the fact that they are below his reading/comprehension level does.

I will.continue to do what I have been, which is make him read his school books once per week (unless Jr wants to read them more obvs) and then read from our vast collection the other days.
He reads a variety of books, from Harry Potter, to Lego Star Wars, to Jacqueline Wilson, to fact books about space/dolphins/snakes etc.
His current favourites are his Dr Seuss collection. Lego Star Wars encyclopedia, a Titanic fact file, and an Angry Birds joke book.
He also reads the Gruffalo and Spot books when he is feeling lazy.

Last year his favourite was an Alevel biology text book

Thewilds I agree that suitability of material for can be an issue for young early readers if schools do not have the resources to cater for them specifically.

Although I haven't had a problem with DD being held back by an insistence that every book is read, I still sometimes supplement reading material over and above the school scheme books with scheme books that I think are better (some of the school ones are poor and some are really superb).

I do this because my main concern is that DD has quality books that capture her imagination. DD wouldn't want to read Jekyll and Hyde, however she is currently reading the ORT abridged version of Five Children and It.

I think abridged classic books are a great idea for young early readers - having checked out this childhood favourite of mine as a book to read to DD I realised that even for reading to her the language and sentence structure is far too sophisticated. The ORT abridged version is just right and I've no concerns that it will put her off the full version when she's older.

However whilst I do agree that in a school with limited resources lack of suitable books is challenging I still think there are better ways of dealing with it than getting children to plod through books that are too easy for them. I mean tell me of a school that would happily hold up it's hands to say "nope, we can't provide suitable material for able young readers here - we just don't have the resources". IMO if that's the reason for having a read all the books policy, it's just not good enough.

"
So reallytired to paraphrase my understanding of your own views, you think that parents raising this concern are liars, with over inflated opinions
of their print-barking DCs? "

It is definately true that that there are lots of parents with deluded over inflated opinons of their children's ablities, but to call them liars is unfair. These actually believe that their pfb is gifted and talented. Lying is a diliberate act.

How do parents know what their school's reading policy is unless they work there? I have worked at three schools and volunteered at another school and none of these school have had such a stupid policy.

Sometimes its good just to enjoy the moment and batter through a school's reading scheme too fast. The term "free reader" is completely arbitary. I would rather than children read a mixture of books and maybe remain on the school reading scheme longer. Contray to popular belief a school does not have the power to stop a child going to a libary and borrowing whatever book they like.

I really don't understand why parents lie in the child's reading diary

I was paraphrasing using your own words ReallyTired, it wasn't me being unfair by calling parents liars.

I started another thread in Primary to see if parents would come forward to say their child has to read every book at every stage. They did, it is their experience with their DCs, which is not the same as a school having a written policy to such effect - let's face it I don't think Ofsted would think much of that. However if it's what happens in practice then it is a policy, even if it's just a single teachers policy, or their policy with that particular child.

However as you agree that such a policy is stupid I am no further on in my quest to find someone who will give me a sound reason for this policy.

I disagree with your view that there are lots of parents that are deluded over the DCs abilities. There are a few. Just like there are a few schools / teachers that do not accurately assess some DCs and will not accept that a parent might be telling the truth, even though some parents lie, or quite simply don't assess their own children's abilities with enough understanding or rigour.

reallytired

I think the issue your expressing with parents could easily be sorted out with proper dialogue between teacher and parent. Parents should know how the reading scheme works in the school their DC attend.

A teacher saying look " I understand you feel this too easy but 1) he reads like this.... ( spoken example) he needs to read like this ( spoken example), he also has no understanding of this - ( produce comp sheet) and when I asked what was going on in this book ( example) he had no i
idea. Hence decided to keep him down.

Thewilds

I understand your points but I do not belive the whole class should be held back on reading because some parents are not able to provide or encourage wider reading than the authors you mentioned.

"I really don't understand why parents lie in the child's reading diary "

That is different lie to the claim that a school forces a child to read every reading book in a scheme. For example last wednesday a child's parent wrote "read easily" in their child's reading diary, five nights in a row. I listened to the child read the same book and he stumbled over quite a lot of words. He found the book a struggle. I find it really hard to believe that the child read the book to their parent easily five nights a row when he made so many mistakes with the same book in class.

If a child reads a stage 5 ORT book and makes ten mistakes then I don't call that "reading easily". Prehaps a parent have a different definition of what "read easily" means. I consider that a child has read a book easily if they have 100% accuracy and reads with expression.

In most schools parents are given plenty of information and they have the opportunity to ask the teacher if they are unsure.

ReallyTired

When my DD first started to read properly, ie, it clicked and she was flying, she would be reading the books to me in a very robotic parrot fashion...which I found odd, as she would read signs out normally or read things on the telly, or anything else in a normal voice.

This was beginning year 1. Then we got the directive to read with more expression.

I have been doing LAMADA exams since I was 9, and have been pretty much involved in Drama all my life. Once we had this directive, I read the book in question to show her, how to put more expression in. She read it back to me in that instant, how she should.

However the next new books came back and was read again in a parrot robot fashion. I realised she was putting on this robot voice as that is what she thought she should be doing in the class.

I had a long conversation with her about showing the teacher her normal expressive voice, and explained it all to her and since then, ( about two weeks into Year 1) we get comments like: Wow what a pleasure to listen too, amazing reading, read so beautifully I really enjoy listening" and so on.

Children are heavily influenced by their peers and they do copy each other. My dd was perfectly capable of reading with expression but the school for one reason or another was not able to bring this out in her. Thankfully, I was.

IE is the child really stumbling or pretending too, because he thinks he should?

I Have taught a few children who read religiously every night, their reading record is full and they have read every book on their colour band. Yet I am am incredibly wary about moving them up because they quite simply have not got the foggiest what they have read! We do lots of work on comprehension in year 3, but if that child is going home every night and just barking at print (it may be an annoying phrase but it sums it up quite well!) and the parent just writes 'great reading' every time and obviously has not discussed the book with then at all, then they are not going to make the same progress.

Similarly, I have taught children who have skipped colour bands because their reading, expression and comprehension has improved significantly each time we assess them.

ReallyTired 100% accuracy?

Can you please reference any guidance for teaching children to read that recommends 100% accuracy? At what point are children to come across new words to practice their sounding out & blending skills? Do you want them to read the same book repeatedly until it's done perfectly?

90 - 95% is the instructional level, the right balance between too hard and too easy (at which point there is no new vocab for children to learn).

Yoni and presumably you are informing the parents of the performing seals how to help their children to read for meaning rather than focussing on furthering their decoding skills?

As you assess and move children up depending on their abilities then the issue I'm raising doesn't apply to you. I do not dispute that some children's decoding skills exceed their comprehension. This thread isn't, however, about the parents of those children. It's about a school or teacher policy of making DCs read all the books in a level irrespective of the child's actual ability.

"Can you please reference any guidance for teaching children to read that recommends 100% accuracy? At what point are children to come across new words to practice their sounding out & blending skills? Do you want them to read the same book repeatedly until it's done perfectly? "

There is a difference between changing book and changing book band. There is no point in a child being given the same book night after night. It is boring and demoralising for a child. If a child reads a book with 95% accuracy then they should be allowed to change their book, but the new book should be of the same band.

Most schools have massive stocks of books to cater for children who need to stay on a band for longer. Infact there is often a variation of difficulty of books in the same book band.

Children actually need a chance to enjoy the books. If they are just sweating with decoding then its no fun.