To think it is time to secularise all state-funded education?

[fideline]

Just that really.

If the figure quoted by Phineyj of CofE only providing 10% of capital cost and none of running cost is correct then I would be very happy to see the state take full control of these schools and pay the outstanding balance.

This would then free up the state to be more flexible in how primary education is provided. My experience of these old school buildings is that many are no longer fit for the purpose. Old, expensive to maintain buildings. Difficult to adapt. Expensive to heat.

Can't make much sense of your post niminy. Sorry.

My experience of these old school buildings is that many are no longer fit for the purpose. Old, expensive to maintain buildings. Difficult to adapt. Expensive to heat.

Very good point Worry

Ignorance about what niminy?

I completely agree. I don't see any reason to keep state faith schools.

To those that say that the CofE should be paid for the buildings - the people have already paid for them from the hundreds of years of compulsory tithes that even farm labourers were forced to pay

i don't think this holds much sway in modern city environments! How many people in the last two hundred years in central Birmingham have paid tithes? Many of them were not even born in the UK. Ditto London and the other large cities.

i am a Catholic and the congregrations have paid for the schools and churches in many cases. Why should we hand them over?

Disagree.

The point is in many places there is no choice, or the choice of the 'good' school being open to you depends on you having the 'correct' religion. Neither is fair.

State-funded faith schools are ridiculous. How did we get to this?

Of course schooling should be secular. Do the God stuff in church or RE classes outside school. It's silly giving children a well-founded education and at the same time demanding they believe a load of tosh as fact. And down the road a different variety of tosh is served up, funded by the very same state. Bonkers.

It's not about choice, it's about lack of choice. Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to live next door to a fantastic state school that your children are excluded from. I'd be flipping furious.

Choice would be something like schools that are open to all offering optional religious lessons.

Totally. And stop the ridiculous practice of going to church for six months, getting your child christened and then never going back again, just so it might be easier to get them into school in a few years' time (as half my non-religious NCT group did). Crazy.

Don't hand them over Abra1d. Keep them.

Sovery Is there any argument beyond parental choice though? In the past 5 minutes we have heard lots of drawbacks to society, to children; what is the societal benefit of faith schools? Could the same not be achieved with weekend religious classes?

Abra1d, because the running costs of schools is (if I understand correctly) 90% paid for by the state, i.e. us, and so should be open to all of us regardless of religion.

I agree. In my area the Catholic primary has created apartheid. Eastern European and third generation Irish kids go there, everyone else goes to the secular schools. It's odd and doesn't reflect the community.

Niminy, please explain? What are atheists ignorant of?

OP, YANBU - although the argument that US schools are secular is an interesting one. If a religious primary education will turn my boys into atheists I'm all for it !

Yes wibbly. Hundreds of thousands of children are getting a wonderful practical lesson in hypocrisy.

YANBU. I love my dd's state Belgian school with no religious assembly and no religion in day to day teaching. I am a bit sad though that you still have to choose an "option" for 2 hours per week - catholic, Islam, Judaism, or Morals, which dd does. I am not religious but many are and a lot of culture is centralised around religion. I wish they would do a class for all that covered all aspects. And then we have the mostly catholic secondary schools....

In the area I'm moving to the options are a shit community school (as described by parents of children there, not my opinion) or a good CofE school. I'm a churchgoer and am alright - just about - with our children going there (TTC so here's hoping, anyway). Would far rather have the choice for any DC to go to a good and mixed community school - but think that this is a terrible choice to have to make for anyone who isn't CofE. YANBU.

Love the idea you get a choice between catholicism, islam, judaism or morals - I they saying they are all mutually exclusive?

Thinking about the cost of buying the schools from CofE then the solution in some towns would be for the local education authority to look at the school provision in the town. If it was anything like my town then there will be some schools which are in new, growing areas and some schools in other areas where numbers are contracting.

Some of the buildings could be returned to the church to do with as they will. Others would be retained. It would be quite possible that the net effect of this would be that no cash was owed by state to church.

I am in the US so it has already happened. And yes, it is time to do the same in the UK.

I think niminy is one of the 'Christians are being persecuted' brigade, OP. Because they aren't allowed to discriminate against gay people any more and all that. Because of all the aggressive secularists around who don't want people to, well, discriminate against other people. Sort of thing.