To think it is time to secularise all state-funded education?

[fideline]

Just that really.

Well if we had secular schools then no doubt we'd have to give up chutney too.

Nonno you keep coming up with things that would have to be banned. How about telling us why you think this would be the case?

morethan your question about a child of atheists who finds faith says a lot about you. Most atheists operate on a principle of respecting the beliefs of others whilst not sharing them. Too many people of faith think of atheists as all being like Richard Dawkins, who has essentially turned atheism into a faith - which is missing the point entirely.

Speaking for myself, all I want is for my lack of faith to be considered just as valuable and morally worthwhile as another's faith.

Religion in schools is a contentious issue precisely because schools get it wrong so often. My DD1's RE teacher recently threatened her with a Gross Misconduct charge because she questioned the existence of God in her classroom - and no, she was not insolent or cheeky about it. The teacher, in response to a question about the Big Bang, said that something would have caused it, so why not God? So DD asked her 'then what caused God?' and boom! Threatened misconduct if she continued to ask questioned. The only reason I didn't make an issue of it it that DD didn't want me to. This same teacher often gets evangelising Christian speakers in, but never any representatives of other faiths. Obviously the school is also at fault for letting her do it, but it just goes to show what a hot potato it is.

The posters squealing about bigoted atheists need to check their massive privilege frankly

The "massive privilege" isn't all that much when it comes to school choices. So if you live near a church school you may have a marginally higher chance of a place, if you attend church often enough (and this equally includes non-Christians who choose to attend church). Even most Christians aren't going to be at church every single week! That's usually after all the other criteria in the admisssions policy and will only be a very small proportion of places. So not "massive" really.

"Right. If it's all about choice, then I choose to send my children to a school where faith is not an admissions criterion, and where teachers will not at any time ask them to pray, and where teachers will be expressly prohibited from teaching Christianity, or any other religion as fact.

How can I organize that, please?"

Could some of the pro faith schools people answer this point, please? I notice that it seems to have been studiously ignored by them!

I choose to send my children to a school where faith is not an admissions criterion, and where teachers will not at any time ask them to pray, and where teachers will be expressly prohibited from teaching Christianity, or any other religion as fact.

Any non-church school won't have faith as an admissions criterion. Assemblies of a "broadly Christian nature" often don't include prayers in non-church schools, they'll be about general principles of kindness, inclusion etc. And there's nothing on the National Curriculum which advocates "teaching religion as fact", and it doesn't and shouldn't usually occur in church schools (except extremist fundamentalist ones).

Just that really. If you want to keep religion out of schools, then you keep ALL of religion out. Haven't you seen the Southpark episode when they are having their "Winter Festival" and one of the characters has to climb up to the top of the stage to remove the star in case it is construed as a Christian reference?
If you are going to go secular, then go secular. But it will be much harder work than mooted... Not impossible, but will change the education system hugely.

Hunreal - there are excellent faith schools near me where a child has to have been baptised by 3 months to stand even a chance of a place....

"Any non-church school won't have faith as an admissions criterion. Assemblies of a "broadly Christian nature" often don't include prayers in non-church schools, they'll be about general principles of kindness, inclusion etc. And there's nothing on the National Curriculum which advocates "teaching religion as fact", and it doesn't and shouldn't usually occur in church schools (except extremist fundamentalist ones)."

But I can't know that will not happen. And my choice is automatically restricted because I cannot choose faith schools (while people of faith can choose any school). So I automatically have less choice than people of faith. How is that fair?

Nonno - I think this is where you are:

Reductio ad absurdum

Learning about religions, about their cultural and historical influence, should be part of any rounded education. I can't see anyone calling for this to end.

Nonnomum- you choose to ignore those of us that say that there is no reason to throw all our traditions away if schools were to become secular. I call that scaremongering, personally.

I see the problem, NonnoMum You are getting your guidance from animated characters on TV.

I see what you are trying to do though. Present it as all or nothing so we have to remove the Queen, cancel Christmas and make small children cry by saying they can't dress up as a shepherd before we can do anything else. A plan worthy of Cartman I must say.

The fact is all of that is nonsense. If the politicians wanted to the compulsory worship rule could be dismissed with the stroke of a pen. It doesn't require changing anything else at all.

The same for school admissions discrimination. We need only apply the laws we already have to put a stop to that.

No - not scaremongering at all. Just thinking that some of the things that are intrinsically linked to religion will be a grey area as to whether or not they can survive in schools. Such as the carol concert. If we go secular, then there will be all sorts of rules about what can and can't be done. So, having a "here is a baby born to be king" type concert will certainly be banned once we are secular...
Just saying.
Would quite appreciate the hysteria around the nativity going myself (as someone who spends a lot of time in schools...)

NonnoMum what nonsense. All you have to do is offer a carol concert - those who want to go with their children go, those who don't want to go, those who say 'but carol concerts offend my atheist sensibilities' get told to take a flying leap.