To think it is time to secularise all state-funded education?

[fideline]

Just that really.

But the issue isn't really about the investment that the Church of England has put into schools, or its noble history as a pioneer of education for poor children. It's about fear of religion: so much of what is evidenced in these threads is fear of what these Christians might do to our children if they got their hands on them; how our children's minds might be poisoned by their evil dogma; how our children might be forced to pray and punished if they do not; how our own secularist and atheist values might be undermined by religious teaching. In the end, it comes down to a fear that our children might be converted.

No nimity. My 'fears' are about;

a) The segregation of our children in our multi-cultural cities (see NI, Glasgow, the former Yugoslavia etc for why)

b) Lack of parental choice disguised as parental choice, despite parents being taxpayers and funding schools they cannot access

c) Cherry-picking - faith acting as a proxy measure for class, privilege, ability etc

It's about fear of religion

LOLOL. What utter nonsense.

Oh, and by the way, there are no such thing as "secularist and atheist values".

I'm against any kind of cooercion of conscience. Bearing that in mind I think that people should be free to send their children to a school of the faith of their choosing or none. Parents should have the freedom that they will not send their children to a faith school. And we should get rid of the requirement for Christian worship in schools.

But I find the level of hatred for religion on threads like this worrying.

Really? Why wouldn't they select based on, oh I don't know, distance from the school. Like non faith schools do.

They do. The admissions criteria normally go something like this:

1. Looked after children. 2. Children living in catchment with a sibling at school 3. Children living in catchment without a sibling at school 4. Children out of catchment with a sibling at the school 5. Any religious criterion 6. Distance from the school.

Under the admissions code the school can only apply a religious criterion after the others have been applied.

I don't think "I want " is ever terribly persuasive. Either way.

I was responding to your 'if people want...' medi. I've made the point myself on this thread that 'i want/like/benefit from' is no argument/

Why?

Because I am worried about all children. The society-wide effect of faith-based segregation.

In the end, it comes down to a fear that our children might be converted.

I am not remotely frightened that my children will be converted to Christianity- that's entirely up to them. I do wonder if you are frightened yours might lose their faith if they spend 6 hours a day in a secular environment though.

That is an excellent argument for religious education, which nobody, as far as I know, is opposing.

However, I am saying that the essence of any religion is not its doctrine, but worship and prayer. RE is generally concerned with doctrines and festivals it is perfectly possible to go through a the whole RE curriculum and still have very little idea of what religion is actually about that's why secularists don't mind it.

"But I find the level of hatred for religion on threads like this worrying."

Please could you cut and paste evidence of "hatred of religion" on this thread?

niminypiminy you are clearly in favour of state funded religious discrimination. How would you feel about the hospital scenario I described earlier? Hospital A is your nearest NHS hospital and has superb facilities, the best specialists for your particular medical condition and is absolutely outstanding in all areas. Hospital B is mediocre at best and further away. Unfortunately Hospital A only treats, say, Jewish people and you are C of E. Do you just accept all the excuses along the lines of the ones you have trotted out iro state funded education that discriminates on the basis of religion or would you be somewhat pissed off about it and think it totally unacceptable.

I do wonder if you are frightened yours might lose their faith if they spend 6 hours a day in a secular environment though.

But they do. As it happens, my children go to their catchment school, which is an LEA county school, in which they have as far as I am aware only two acts of worship of a broadly Christian nature per year, and that is not unusual.

But, Owlcapone CofE VA/VC schools do not only educate Christian children, let alone only children from CofE church-going familes. To say they do is, well, a lie.

YANBU, it is one of the reasons that I home ed. The choice in my area is failing school or church school.

I really dislike the church and the state being entwined in general. I know at least France (possibly used to) gives an afternoon a week off school where children can be put into religious ed if their parents want it. That seems sensible.

You do know that the 10% of capital costs contribution can be waived by the LEA so its not even a given that it will be contributed.

Children of the parish - hah!
Nearest local faith primary schools (3 schools) places offered 2013
Places available - 103
Places that went to non sibling / non Christian - 3

It was even worse last year when only 1 place was offered to non Christian/ non-sibling.

I think given how few children are admitted each year from the local community that we can assume most of the siblings are Christian too.

All state schools should be prohibited from selecting on the basis of faith, attendance at church/synagogue/mosque, a good word from the vicar/rabbi/iman, or any other such nonsense.

Families are being driven out of areas dominated by faith schools. Our area has a tiny handful of good performing state schools (with tinier catchments), a few schools in special measures and a large number of CoE and Catholic schools. We are being driven out of an area we've lived in for years for not attending church. Alternatively, we can opt for a private school. That isn't choice by any stretch of the imagination.

Councils should at least be required to limit the proportion of faith schools to secular state schools in an area. But then maybe Cameron and his cronies quite like the divisions.

Under the admissions code the school can only apply a religious criterion after the others have been applied.

And for many, the first criteria after looked after children and SEN is religion and church activity.

^They do. The admissions criteria normally go something like this:

1. Looked after children. 2. Children living in catchment with a sibling at school 3. Children living in catchment without a sibling at school 4. Children out of catchment with a sibling at the school 5. Any religious criterion 6. Distance from the school.^

Not here they don't. Religion comes in above any stuff about catchment.

But, Owlcapone CofE VA/VC schools do not only educate Christian children, let alone only children from CofE church-going familes. To say they do is, well, a lie.

Yes they do and no it isn't. Well, I think they have to admit 10% based on non faith ground but that is almost pointless.

niminypiminy CofE schools in my area don't discriminate as badly as the Catholic schools in my area - they generally only reserve 50% of their places for CofE children as opposed to the 100% for Catholic children. This is regardless of catchment area. However, 50% discrimination is still discrimination.

Have I misunderstood what this says about religious requirements?

Nearest faith primary to me admissions criteria for Sept 2014

1. Looked after Christian children
2. Baptised children who attend local parish church
3. Baptised children other Anglican churches
4. Looked after and previously looked after children
5. Regular worshippers other Christian denominations
6. Children at the school nursery
7. Siblings
8. Regular worshippers other world faiths
9. Distance from school

Maybe its not a surprise that they admitted no children at all from the local community.

That looks very much like every CofE school admission policy I have ever seen Chaz

A faith primary near me, first one I could think of

1. looked after children
2. siblings
3. denominational i) specific Anglican Church ii) other Anglican Church iii) non Anglican full member of "churches together in Britain and Ireland"

Another CofE Primary is the same with priority give to Christian religious observance, not distance.

When I was at school cofe children could go to a cofe school but couldn't go to a catholic school, but catholic children could go to either.

It's about time we removed faith/religion fairy speak from our childrens lives until they could make an 'informed' choice when they reach the age of consent.