To think "politically correct" is one of the most over-used and misused terms around?

[Nennypops]

I keep seeing the term 'politically correct' being used all over the place as a catch-all terms of abuse by people who clearly have no idea what the term means but want to convey that whatever it is that they disapprove is in some way unnecessary, wet, lentil-knitting, left-wing, or even positively harmful.

For the sake of convenience, I'll adopt the definition of political correctness given in Wikipedia - "a term that refers to language, ideas, or policies that address perceived or actual discrimination against or alienation of politically, socially or economically disadvantaged groups. The term usually implies that these social considerations are excessive or of a purely "political" nature. These groups most prominently include those defined by gender, race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation and disability."

I accept that it can be valid to criticise over-sensitive concerns about discrimination, but I've seen the term used in defence when someone is called out for blatant racism/sexism/homophobia etc and richly deserves it. It usually signals to me, frankly, that the person in question is even more of an a*hole than their original conduct suggested - they are trying to suggest that they are in some way justified and that complaining is ludicrously over-sensitive.

If I see the term incorrectly used in support of what otherwise might be a valid argument, it instantly annoys me and changes the way I view the person using the term. It tends to be used in relation to things which seem to me to be self-evidently beneficial - e.g. breastfeeding, the right to a fair trial, the right of children not to be left with abusive parents, etc. It is also quite often used for things that have no conceivable element of political correctness at all; I once saw it used in relation to the suggestion that it would be an idea to take an umbrella out when it's raining.

Seems to me that it's time to make the term completely redundant. If you find yourself about to use the term "politically correct" just stop, and find some other way of expressing your views.

They can use what they like, but I think a homeless person describes better the real state a person is in as opposed to the neutral "client" which applies to any business customer.

I am not deeming words unacceptable. I just prefer homeless person to client.

Why? And, indeed, why is the term "client" in this context an example of political correctness? Aren't those working with the homeless using that term mainly for their own convenience rather than because they deem the term "homeless" to be hurtful or offensive?

I am not deeming words unacceptable. I just prefer homeless person to client.

Nobody should have a problem with this surely?

If they do then the problem is with them not you.

Claig, I told you the context of the use of the term "idiot" in the Finance Bill upthread. Indeed, it was pretty obvious from your own quote. Why are you still claiming not to know it?

Yes a homeless person is also a human, a dog lover, an ex soldier, a drug user, a.mum, an abused child, ex offender, unlucky, etc

Because they are so much more complex than 'homeless' they are not referred to as just homeless people

You see political correctness as just being to do with avoiding hurt or offense. I think it is in reality much more than that. i believe it is redefining language in order to redefine thought.

You say they use client for their convenience, but I am more interested in the convenience of the homeless person. When a politician stands up in Parliament, I want them to say how many homeless there are, not how many "clients" there are, just as I want them to take about casualties and injuries instead of "collateral damage" after a bombing raid.

I don't want them to hide behind neutral terms that camouflage reality for their own convenience.

If you are helping someone who is homeless then that is who you are helping.

Like asking a Policeman for directions or a waiter for service....that is what they are at that minute irrelevant of what other hats they wear.

' Why are you still claiming not to know it?'

Can you link to the context in the Bill? I haven't seen it. When I quote from newspaper articles it doesn't mean I agree with everything in them or have even had time to read all of them.

Claig

The context of idiot was clear. It was stated on the thread.
Could you confirm now that it is unacceptable ?

So, Claig, if a homeless person goes to a lawyer's firm and gets help under legal aid, it's OK for them to be called a client in your book. However, if they go to a charity and get help under legal aid (and groups such as Shelter do indeed work with legal aid funding), they should be called "homeless people". Why?

'The context of idiot was clear. It was stated on the thread.
Could you confirm now that it is unacceptable ?'

If teh context is as nennypops said,then yes it should not have been used and was right to be removed.

However, I am saying that using the phrase "Farage is an idiot" is OK. That is offending no one except Farage and he can take it.

You see political correctness as just being to do with avoiding hurt or offense. I think it is in reality much more than that. i believe it is redefining language in order to redefine thought

No, that is you avoiding the definition of the term in order to avoid those areas of your argument that are uncomfortable. Is there any chance of you answering the question many people have put to you, namely what is that people want to say that they are being wrongly prevented from saying as a result of political correctness? Is it "redefining thought" to teach children that is inappropriate to use offensive racist terms?

'I don't call people with black skins "nigger" . Am I being PC?'

No. I don't think that is what PC is about. PC started off used by communists in order to get socialists to toe their party line and was used by socialists pejoratively to mock communists and is now used as a pejorative term to oppose political orthodoxy.

'if they go to a charity and get help under legal aid (and groups such as Shelter do indeed work with legal aid funding), they should be called "homeless people". Why?'

Because a charity is not a business or at least should not be one, unlike a legal firm. The charity, just like the politician, should be servants of the people and not treat us as "clients".

The point is, Claig, that no-one is claiming that it is politically incorrect to say Farage is an idiot. You however specifically introduced the reference to the term in the context of the Finance Bill as an example of the use of political correctness to stifle speech, despite the fact that, on your own admission, you had not checked out the context at all and you now seem to accept that there was nothing wrong in removing that term from the Bill. You do therefore seem to accept that there are circumstances when political correctness is entirely valid.

This thread has got even odder since I last looked.

Claig, you are completely (I suspect deliberately) misunderstanding the use of 'client'. No MP would use it in the House of Commons, because homeless people are not an MP's 'clients' - it is a professional term often used among people who work, in whatever capacity, with people in need, in order to grant them a bit of dignity. My sister, for instance, works as an addiction counsellor for a local authority, and the alcoholics and drug users she sees are referred to within the facility by the counsellors and support staff as 'clients'.

It is a useful, neutral term that suggests the humanity of the people who attend the facility, rather than their status as 'methadone user'/'alcoholics' - because they are more than their addiction. Yes, it is rather sanitised, but as it is a term used within facilities that work with people with a particular set of needs, they know precisely who they are dealing with, so its hardly hiding away a subset of society.

What on earth is wrong with charities calling the people they serve clients? And what on earth is politically correct about it?

' You do therefore seem to accept that there are circumstances when political correctness is entirely valid.'

I am against rudeness and insults to anybody. I don't believe that calling people names is at the core of political correctness, I think it is just being plain offensive.

'I think you have a misunderstanding of what PC means compared to other people.'

You think that calling people by derogatory names is what it is about. I don't think that has anything to do with "political" and is not really at teh core of PC.

' in whatever capacity, with people in need, in order to grant them a bit of dignity'

I don't think that it lessens someone's dignity to say that they are homeless or an alcoholic. I think that a euphemism such as "client" dissembles reality.

'no-one is claiming that it is politically incorrect to say Farage is an idiot'

I have seen threads on here where people have told posters not to use the word "idiot" in a general sense as the word is offensive. I think it has many meanings and is often not offensive.

'but as it is a term used within facilities that work with people with a particular set of needs, they know precisely who they are dealing with, so its hardly hiding away a subset of society.'

Yes, it may be used internally, but is also used externally, on the news etc when staff are interviewed or politicians discuss it and I think that is where it risks being hidden from the public who are watching.

I have to agree with claig on the use of the word 'client'; it's disingenuous at best, as it implies an exchange of money and pushes us all a step further to thinking of public services as private companies whose services are to be bought.

As far as PC goes, I think the meaning has undoubtedly shifted over time. George Orwell would be the first to agree

Agree, tethersend, and I wonder if it is to get us into a mindset where we see all public services as "transactions" and gets us to accept the creeping privatisation of our public services to be run as business for profit with us as "clients".