To be more than annoyed when people inform me my children need a good smack?

[Slightlyneuroricnat]

It really winds me up.
Not so much the oldies who say " in our day I would have a got a whack for that " but people that can see I'm already having a tough time dealing with 2 toddlers, my eldest daughter is going through a phase ( I bloody hope ) of hitting everyone including me and we always have the same conversation, I don't hit you and you must not hit mummy, you've hurt me and now we are going home.
So we had this yesterday in a park and a lady informed me that I was " wishy washy " and what she actually needed was a good smack herself.
Am I being unreasonable to think she is an ignorant fool or am I some kind of martyr as I don't believe in hitting children?

[Fefifo]

Oh dear sleep, I think you're getting carried away. I did answer your question, at length, but now you've gone on to compare abusive care home workers with parents that occasionally use smacking as a form of discipline to add strength to your argument. Really?

Okay, those elderly patients fear those workers because they've gone a tad further than administering a smack on the hand every few months or so I would imagine. I would also imagine that in between those occasional smacks those care home workers aren't spending the rest of their time reading and writing with those patients, staying up until 3 preparing costumes for world book day, lovingly making them meals from scratch, going without themselves so their charges can attend as many extra curricular activities as possible and putting into their savings accounts, laying awake worrying that they're at the absolutely best care home within their reach or generally spending every other minute between the smacks doing their human best to make sure their lives are generally as happy and enriching as possible. Nope? I stand by my assertion that your comparison is completely ridiculous.

[behindthetimes]

OP I've had the same issues, it's really hard. I made the mistake of hitting DS to try and teach him not to hit me, through desperation, not surprisingly it just made things worse. Now when people say he just needs a good smack, I say 'if it was that simple, I'd do it'.
If you are being firm and consistent I'm sure you'll get there in the end, try and ignore unhelpful comments.
In case it helps, the most effective thing I've found is the opposite of what my instincts tell me, which is to hold his hands by his side, tell him he is a good boy who really doesn't want to hit his mummy and ask if he wants a cuddle instead

[SleepOhHowIMissYou]

No Fefifo, you didn't answer, at any length.

It's a terribly simple question, I'll shorten it for you, make it easier.

Why is it not okay to hit vulnerable people?

Excellent advice behindthetimes BTW.

[Snog]

Do not listen to these fools OP and have confidence in your parenting. Violence against children is never justified imo.

[LessMissAbs]

I don't agree with the wording, but if your child hit me, I might not be at my most tactful!

If more than one person has said similar things to you, isn't it possible that your children are really badly behaved?

[Slightlyneuroricnat]

I certainly won't be listening to any pro smackers believe me!
Behindthetimes,
This was our first port of call and unfortunately didn't work at all.

[mercibucket]

noone has ever said my kids need a good smack. for more than one person to say it, i do wonder what is going on. not nec your childs behaviour, maybe your response?

[Fefifo]

I think that punishment and deterrent are two different things and I think the dictionary agrees. A punishment may be used as part of a deterrent but a deterrent isn't of and in itself a punishment. I smack as a deterrent.

Yes sleep I was smacked but in an entirely different way to my kids. My mother occasionally smacked me in a completely non controlled way in a loss of temper and it was far more than just a smack on the hand when I was much older than either of my kids. She was a single parent in shit circumstances under incredible stress. I absolutely adore her. She broke her back to do her best for me and sacrificed in a way I can't even contemplate for her children. I think she's absolutely wonderful and feel nothing but compassion that she was pushed over the edge on occasion and behaved like that. I think it enabled me to look at the bigger picture of a person's behaviour and not judge them on the odd failure. To answer your next question no I have never been in a physically abusive relationship and no I would absolutely not think it's okay for anyone else to raise a hand to me. She wasn't 'someone who was in charge of me physically' she was my mother and that relationship, for me, is completely unlike any other relationship on earth.

Anyway, like I said, a completely different circumstance and way to the way I smack my own children so again no comparison for me really. She also wouldn't ever contemplate touching my children and doesn't agree with the fact that I smack them. Not sure how that fits in with your theory on cycles.

[Fefifo]

Sorry sleep, was writing that last one while eating dinner so missed yours. Perhaps you can see the answer to your question in my last post but then you've not managed yet so I'll try again.

My children are not vulnerable people, they are my children. They are the least vulnerable it is possible for them to be when in my care because I am their mother. Your question, like your comparison between my DC and abused elderly people in a care home (really look at that sentence) is a nonsense.

[SleepOhHowIMissYou]

Fefifo I'm so glad your Mother has learned her behaviour was wrong. Maybe, in time, you will too.

Talk me through the smacking as a deterrent, not sure I understand. You smack them to stop them doing what exactly?

[SleepOhHowIMissYou]

Fififo, your children have immature brains and small stature. They are weak and vulnerable. I don't understand the need to hit the weak and vulnerable, perhaps you can explain?

[Owllady]

I thought the title said snack
I thought this was a whole thread about bare foot toddlers in dirty pushchair with quavers in the middle of winter

[Latraviata]

Lol this is the thread that keeps on giving. Come on nasty child abusers unite here!

[Toadinthehole]

Sleepoh

The way you've put the question begs the question. Come back with a better question.

[SleepOhHowIMissYou]

'Come back with a better question' is a statement, not a question Toad :)

[Fefifo]

Oh sleep, you're being deliberately difficult now. She knew it was wrong when she did it as did I. She doesn't agree with me smacking her precious grandchildren in the way I do, she doesn't think it's wrong.

I really don't recall what I smacked my youngest for the last time I did but it's generally for reasons of young child bloody mindedness like insisting she be allowed to race me down the road and win (ie dash out across the road by herself) which could result in very serious injury to herself. As her immature brain couldn't compute the concept that this would not be in her best interests despite several attempts at reasoning on my part on that occasion I threatened her with a smack as a deterrent. The threat served its purpose as a deterrent because she stopped and hasn't tried since. Had I of stopped and cuddled her while gently explaining the consequences of her actions again she would probably thrash about until the cuddle had ended then take off again. Do you not threaten your children as a deterrent? Maybe not with a smack but I don't know taking away something they want or stopping them from doing something they want? Perhaps your young children were exceptionally reasonable? Talk me through how you would handle these kinds of situations or did they never arise for you?

[Brummiegirl15]

I'm with those that say actually it did do me harm. I remember a couple of occasions like it was yesterday. And I'm 37. Not sure harm is right word, but it's something.

I remember my Dad being so angry at my brother once and lashing out and caught his mouth and made my brother bleed. My Dad was horrified that he'd lost control and ironically never ever went near us ever again.

I had a wonderful childhood, I knew I was loved and my parents worked incredibly hard to provide for all of us. My parents still are as supportive, caring, wonderful and as loving as they've always been.


However whenever anyone mentions smacking it brings back those memories and I find them incredibly distressing and my blood runs cold and I feel close to tears.

But I could never tell my parents that, they would be devastated. The thought of them being upset, upsets me even more!! Weird I know.

But as a result, and DP and I don't have children yet, I like to think I will never smack my children. And nobody else smacks my children. That is non - negotiable. My colleagues mock me and say "wait until you have children, you have no idea". I admit I probably don't, but I know how those memories make me feel. And my parents are the most wonderful parents who I love dearly, but I could never admit this to them.

On another note, my DP was in a meeting the other day and this subject came up, and someone said "I smack my children, I don't care". I'm sorry, how is that ANYTHING to be fucking proud of? Most people say "yes, I've smacked, I hate it. But sometimes it's all I can do and I feel shit for it". But this person openly admitting he smacked his children. I think I would have said something. Tosser

[Fefifo]

Thank you toad my sleep addled brain was starting to go think I'm missing some sort of deeper point.

Just as an aside, i think I must live in some sort of parallel universe whenever I see discussions on smacking on these forums, as the vast majority of people are always so completely against it. In reality I know very few parents who don't occasionally smack and even of the ones I know who don't i know of absolutely none who would describe us as 'child abusers' or compare us to care home workers who beat the elderly for missing the commode.

[SleepOhHowIMissYou]

I had a runner too. I bought baby reins and told her that if she didn't hold my hand or stay near me then I would put them on her. That was enough, usually. The one time I did put them on her she slumped and refused to move. She didn't want to wear them because she was not a baby and the behaviour thankfully petered out when she started nursery. If she didn't hold my hand, hold the pram or stay near, she didn't get a star on her chart at the end of the day. 5 stars = a prize from the treat box.

I have never threatened my children with violence. I have raised them to believe violence is wrong.

My children had reward charts and a treat box (pound shop toys, stickers, pens, books), not slaps.

[BertieBotts]

I used to insist that DS went into the pushchair to cross roads when he was at the age to have no sense about them. When he was older he had to hold hands and the times he went limp in the middle of the road (Why the fuck do they do this?!) I picked him up by his wrist and carried him to the other side. I know horrible for his joints, but when you have a pushchair and/or bag in the other hand and you're in the middle of a road there is no choice. But there was also no time for threats, just action. When he was little and unpredictable I used to hold hands by letting him hold my index finger and I'd have the rest of my fingers/thumb around his wrist - not hard or uncomfortable, but it means that you have a grip on them if they suddenly decide to try and slip/twist away for whatever unfathomable 2 year old reason.

I don't know, I just always made it clear that we can have races on pavements but not on the road. I had sort of "levels of safety" - in pushchair strapped in, in pushchair not strapped in, holding hands, not holding hands but walking next to me, not holding hands, being allowed to walk/run ahead and/or ride a scooter.

When I thought he might be ready for more responsibility I let him go up one "level" on quiet roads where you can hear a car coming from miles off, and if he behaved sensibly over a period of time then I would let him do this on pavements of busier roads. But every time we crossed a road he has to go back a step - he will never be allowed to run out ahead when crossing a road although this is perfectly safe on a pavement providing you have awareness of other pedestrians, driveways etc. Of course at some point he'll be allowed to cross roads by himself!

You could call the "threat" of the pushchair a deterrent, I thought of it more as a safety measure. The fact that it acted as a deterrent (or not) was of no consequence, he could also ask to go in it if he was tired of walking.

The thing with small children too small to understand reason is that you can pick them up and carry them under your arm one handed if you need to.

[BertieBotts]

I have found that most of the time if you explain to them that the thing they want to do is possible in X way but not Y way they are happy to keep to that boundary because they still get to do what they want to do, and I try to facilitate compromise in that kind of way as much as possible. Maybe I'm just lucky, though.

[SleepOhHowIMissYou]

Fefifo, noticed you've dodged my question again.

Do you not see the irony that we have laws protecting adults and animals from physical abuse but not the most vulnerable, children?

I hope the law changes soon and you can go tell the authorities that their reasons are wrong and ridiculous.

[Fefifo]

I don't have a runner. I have a child that on the one occasion I mentioned decided that running would be a good idea. I deterred her from that idea with the threat of a smack. We have not needed to discuss that idea again. Call it lazy parenting if you like, and no doubt you will, but I'm of the mind that if there is a technique at my disposable that would put ideas of running across roads where a car could knock down an kill my child in an instant I'd rather use that than waiting for it to peter out.

I'm not going to reward my children for not doing something that would be stupid for them to do. For me, that doesn't give the right message. I don't consider not bolting across roads good behaviour, that's expected behaviour. If you were handing out stickers and toys for meeting the required minimum what on earth did you do when they actually did something good?

Like I said my children have never been in any way violent with another child. I also raise my children to believe violence is wrong and seem to be doing a good job of it from their behaviour.

[BertieBotts]

I have to disagree Fefifo, I think I'd be more worried about using a technique that still involves trusting your (young enough not to understand why it's a bad idea) child to stick to a rule, even if you are confident that they are deterred by the threat of punishment. I prefer to physically prevent them from being able to get to that source of danger until they are old enough to understand.

What if she forgets about the warning or in the excitement of the moment regards it as unimportant? It only takes a split second.

[ShadowFall]

Fefifo - I also raise my children to believe violence is wrong - yet you smack your children.

Can you really not see the contradiction there?