To think any Secondary School with 75% High Attainers and 2% Low Attainers is A Grammar School no matter itsclassifaction

[motown3000]

I have looked on the Department of education Performance Tables, and have noticed Schools like Watford Girls/Boys Parmiters, are Grammar Schools. They are Called Comprehensive Schools to be Politically correct and admit 3 or 4 Low ability pupils each year to keep the Comprehensive classification.

Why do we have to have this "Fakery" of pretending to be a Comprehensive , because they are not allowed to be a Grammar school , despite actually being one.

I'm all for the reintroduction of grammar schools...for bright kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, they are often a golden chance.

Selection on location means that you get schools for the rich and schools for the poor. Similarly there is an element of protectionism which means that rich people who have bought a house on the doorstep of wealthy state comprehnesive want selection to be on location. Most people are in favour of selection(ie. test, location, faith) if they have a kid who gets selected and anti selection if their kid doesn't make the grade.

I look forward to the day when all state schools are forced to take their fair share of rich and poor kids. (Incidently I am not anti grammar schools)

My experience as a parent of children at a comprehensive is that they are allowed to 'select' after entry to the school and therefore stream so you get the brightest in stream A and the streams go down to Remedial classes. Subject classes are also in sets so someone from Stream B or C can be taught, say Geography, in Set B of Stream A so they still achieve. My children got into the school during its first year as a comprehensive after finishing as a grammar school and the grammar head stayed there. We were lucky. For languages, French, German, Russian,Spanish and Latin were taught. How many comprehensives teach all those?

It had a grammar ethos and its pupils aspired. There were always pupils who got into Oxbridge long after the 'grammar' head left (not mine though) and many have high powered lucrative jobs. That's what a comprehensive school should be like.

It wasn't just grammar schools and secondary moderns before comprehensives. There were three categories and the third was technical schools.

Secondary moderns produced children who could go on to further education at colleges and some whom I knew became 'stenographers', which was thought to be a desirable career in those days (working in an office v working in a factory).

Technical colleges produced all sorts as well and I know a man who went to one and finished up at the Royal College of Music and played a woodwind instrument in a well known orchestra. He was not alone.

As for the 11+ to get into a grammar school, it was possible to change to a grammar school when you were 13 if you were up to it but it did mean a lot of hard work once there. Probably still does.

The same way outstanding primary schools in our area seem to have a lower population of fsm students than the local population tells us they should have. LA's practice selection at this level and it makes it easier at comp level. There's nothing that can be proved but it's very telling which families make it in and which do not. This is not sour grapes as The Cub attends a fab local school and we didn't apply to the outstanding schools.

NotAConspiracyBelieverUsuallyTiggaxx

Whether you like it or not, often the state grammars do provide a superior education. There is enough of the socialist in me to know every child deserves an elite education and it shouldnt only be in the realm of the the top 22%. On the other hand I know that no everyone shares the same views with regard to valuing education.

Some Interesting figures from the three schools that show similar attainment and FSM with the exception that Watford Boys has a Relative high no of SEN students. All three schools have the "Magic" 2% Low Ability pupils.

Watford Boys : FSM 3.6% , 8.5% SEN , Ability Range 2% Low 18% Middle 80% High % A*- C 91% Gcse % AAB @ A Level 50%

Watford Girls : FSM 3.3% , 1.5% SEN, Ability Range 2% Low 22% Middle 75% High % A* - C 92% Gcse % AAB @ A Level 34%

Parmiters : FSM 4.6% , 2.9% SEN, Ability Range 2% Low 25% Middle
73% High % A* - C 93% Gcse % AAB@ A Level 39%.

The three schools have results Especially at A Level that most Grammar Schools don't match and probably they are not 100% at Gcse is down to the 2% of Low ability students and a couple of Lower Middle Ability students.

It makes the results at my dd's school which is truly comprehensive and takes anyone and everyone look really good in that case .

Where did you get those stats from Motown?

Department of Education Performance Tables Website. WWW. Dept Of Education Performance Tables...

sometimeslonely

You must be of my age or thereabouts. We still have the grammar schools here and the Tech Colleges as were, achieved Grammar Status. I do remember the introduction of 'comprehensives' but they didn't last very long round these 'ere parts.

Interestingly - any grammar school that has academy status (we are completely academy in this LA) has no legal standing as a grammar school BUT can call its self what it like and use selective testing. The new academy chains such as harris use the banded entry test, and although they wont admit they are selective, they certainly prune out

@Mintyy

It makes the results at my dd's school which is truly comprehensive and takes anyone and everyone look really good in that case .

You reckon the results for these 3 are poor in comparison to most Grammars?

The area a school is in and how oversubscribed means that it is possible for there to be 75% high achievers and not be a grammar, but the OPs point about what seem to be loopholes is well made.

Parmiters is an interesting one. I had relatives apply being picking private. It was very much viewed as a grammar by them. The interesting dynamic is the siblings one so if you’re selecting 35% on academic and music there is probably an assumption that the siblings of those 35% are probably equally bright. Obviously there will be some families where that isn’t the case or there are additional needs which change the overall intake but you’re still going to be getting a pretty bright cohort.

A school that doesn’t select via the 11 plus is not a grammar.

Comprehensives that do well academically will typically be in more expensive areas and so a greater proportion of their intake will be from better off, better educated parents - who can afford to buy or rent in the area.

We’re in a grammar school area where already very high property prices are driven even higher by people moving here because of the schools.

Any better than average comprehensive within a relatively pricey catchment area will doubtless be the same.