to think people are being deliberately perverse about Council/HA..

[fideline]

....housing?

1. Social (council or HA) rents are not subsidized.

2)Social (council or HA) tenancies are not a form of welfare benefit.

It's not that hard to grasp is it?

I live in a road of 1950s HA homes - they have all just been re roofed (sp?) A private landlord would have to pay for this via his rent - it will be many, many, many years (if ever) before the H.A. recoup this expense.

We own our house, we have the joy of the 1950s roof still.

You can't call them RSLs any more fideline

That had to go in 2008 when the English and Welsh legislation parted company. The English law changed, wales kept the old law and kept the term RSL in the devolution divorce.

I really have to stop now.

What area/region are you in Bumpy ? Quite understand if you'd rather not say, of course.

Ok saucy jackass..
Tenant a receives 100 pw made up of hb ctc wtc and cb and wages
tenant b receives the same. Through the same channels
tenants a & b live next door to each other. Tenant a pays 50 per week to mr j landlord
tenant b pays 25 per week to council
Tenant a does not get any rent top up as council have deemed fair rent to be 25 per week. Yet 'market rent' is 50 per week. .
Someone is getting a 'subsidy' somewhere. Feel free to split hairs. Come and live the dream I will show you what its like.

Pancakes really? No more RSLs? Such a handy acronym.

bumpygrindy you and about a million other people. Some housing associations are now building more properties for market rent, because what a lot of people really want is the long term security. Obviously they wouldn't say no to a sub market rent but they don't need it, iyswim.

Bluesky I think you have the better deal even with a decrepit roof

Not a comfortable time to be a public sector tenant, i'm sure.

It isn't my fault if you don't understand what a subsidy is Jupiter. No need to call me names.

fideline still going strong in wales I believe. In England it's RP, for Registered Provider of Social Housing.

below market rents are not essentially a subsidy,

they are just lower than market rents.

It is a subsidy though. They aren't following current market trends which is what prices of things go off, thus being subsidised.

I'd rather not say the area I'm in but the guidelines for bidding are that preference will be given to those with connections to the area and those in full time employment.

fideline I think it's a perfectly ok time to be an existing public sector tenant. (There have been better but still not bad). Not a good time at all to be a prospective one.

If I ever become terribly rich, I will start a housing trust. I will...I'll never forget what the insecurity is like. I'll build great houses for those on low incomes.

Jupiter in many areas they will not get the same. the private tenant will get more (higher cost to taxpayer) but still not enough to cover their rent. Social tenant receives lower HB (better for tax payer) and has no extra to pay (better for the tenant)

There are huge numbers of working people who get Housing Benefit who wouldn't need any if they were 'only' charged a fair rent.

So we've gone from in months.. social housing is free.. to social housing is subsidised by the taxpayer to 'well its subsidised.. not quite sure where but it definitely is'... progress

When really it's a case of looking in the neighbours bowl to see if he's got more than you.

Sorry pancakes, that wasn't clear. I meant in terms of feeling stigmatized by the 'scrounger' rhetoric being frequently extended to them and then tenancies and anxiety about changes to public housing.

When people complain of council homes being subsidised they usually mean that taxpayers money is spent paying the rent. So while the council could charge more that is a different thing entirely.

Housing associations make enough money on rents to maintain current properties and buy new ones. So they are not running at a loss.

And as others have said if there were more social housing it would force down prices for everyone.

Bumpy It does seem a bit harsh that PT employment or study or FT caring for disabled person etc isn't also included.

They aren't following current market trends which is what prices of things go off, thus being subsidised.

No sweetie no- this isn't the definition of a subsidy either. They aren't following market trends because they are owned outright by the local council who do not increase prices in line with private rentals because they are not there to make a profit.

They would only be subsidized if they cost the council more to own and maintain than they receive back in rent. And this is not the case.

That's what is so weird.

People whinge about paying HB out of their taxes but in the next breath they want people who pay rent.. shoved out into private rents (because they can afford it and why should they get free rents) then they want the houses filled with the poor and the needy so they can pay for more HB.

Makes perfect sense.

*cheap rents rather

I've just checked and full time in education can also apply. I see what you mean though about people in part time employ being excluded. It's not fair...a single parent for instance would possibly lose out there.

Saucy & Jupiter's conversation illustrates my point perfectly.

Ah well. Very glad you've got your home bumpy. Hope you are soon settling in.