to wonder how many are exploiting housing benefit like this

[AgaPanthers]

This man:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246973/Slum-landlord-David-McCabe-left-tenants-Dickensian-squalor-faces-letting-ban-Britains-property-rental-ASBO.html

has been a landlord of 30 years. He makes his money by renting out squalid, uninhabitable wrecks to men on housing benefit.

He ignored orders to fix the properties, appealed, and the sentences has been confirmed.

www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Rogue-landlord-rented-rooms-squalid-houses-court/story-20789663-detail/story.html

Some of the 'Benefits Streets' houses were owned by similar landlords who did nothing to maintain conditions fit for human habitation but still sponged off state benefits paid to their tenants. There must be hundreds of thousands of these places up and down the country left in this mess.

Landlords generally tend to be greedy and reluctant to do maintenance, but at least those renting out more expensive places have to do them up to get tenants in in the first place.

It is pure greed, tenants in these circumstances don't necessarily keep good care of properties, but that's the choice you as a landlord make when you choose to enter the business - don't like it, sell up.

Prison sentences surely the next step?

"Tbf on some landlords, I wouldn't want to spend money on a property that isn't going to be maintained how it should. Some people have no respect for things. Look at all of the HB folk getting into the new build properties on newly built estates, they wreck them, it's disgusting.

So although I see your pov, I also see the other side, you should try too."

If you choose to buy a new property as a BTL investment, then the inevitability of damage to the property is absolutely something you need to factor in to your decision to go into that business. No different from any other business.

Do you think that pub owners refuse to clean up the broken glass and vomit from their floors on the basis that it's 'HB folk' with 'no respect for things', making the mess? Of course not, it's all part of the business.

Far too many people are in BTL without a clue what they are doing on the basis of some day time TV drivel.

Our tenants are very good and we are good to them. They were exactly the sort of tenants we wanted, a family with children in the local schools who wanted to stay for years. They do get some HB on top of working. If there is a problem we sort it quickly and they keep the property in reasonable condition because it is their family home. It works well for both sides.

That's why we need very strong laws to protect tenants from landlords

There are plenty of laws to protect the tenants IMO.

My brother and his wife rent out a house (it was their family home and will be again when they return from working abroad). They had a tenant that moved into their house and by the time she left it some 2 years later, it was in an absolute state.
Without going into details, she, her 3 children and their dog had caused over two thousand pounds worth of damage to the house.
Because the laws that do protect tenants, my brother had to fight tooth and nail to be able to retain some of her deposit to cover the costs of the damage that she had caused to the property. It still wasn't even close to the amount he needed to fix the mess she'd created. She didn't give two hoots about what she had done. And this is a very expensive property, in a vairy naice area, so not some slum landlord type dump. He is a very fair landlord, the property is beautiful and well maintained etc.

Some tenants can be a nightmare, and as far as I am concerned, landlords and their properties need to be protected as much as the tenants themselves.

This type of LL, is very different from the majority. Of course most LL's are in it to make money - I don't see a problem in that at all. Most LL's also carry out required repairs & treat their tenants fairly.

The type of LL in this article, is the type who purposefully take full advantage of the fact that it can be nearly impossible for someone in receipt of HB to find a property to rent. They rent hovels to people desperate for a roof over their heads. Good private LL's who will/can let to people with HB are like hen's teeth - and I imagine their properties get snapped up in no time.

People really should be able to see the difference between the two, shouldn't they?

On reflection I think the OP has gone back under the rock where the trolls live. Hopefully she or he likes the company there.

it all started with a DM link anyway.

and yes, there are plenty of laws to protect tenants. As there should be.

"Some tenants can be a nightmare, and as far as I am concerned, landlords and their properties need to be protected as much as the tenants themselves."

Well no, definitely not. Landlord negligence can kill. If tenants damage a property that's a financial loss, but it's not comparable to people dying from dangerous houses (e.g., leaking boilers, etc.)

"Good private LL's who will/can let to people with HB are like hen's teeth - and I imagine their properties get snapped up in no time.

People really should be able to see the difference between the two, shouldn't they?"

I don't know how we can possibly tell. Massive amounts of benefits are going to landlords. Billions.

That money should be for decent accommodation. But how can you be sure?

As you say, it's very difficult to find a landlord who will take HB, so obviously that does create a market for 'no questions asked' HB landlords who rent out dangerous hovels.

Benefits do not to go landlords. Benefits go to people who claim them because they can't afford to live without them.

If benefits did go to landlords, and the responsibility remained with the claimant in the event of an over payment or fraudulent claim, then there would be many more landlords willing to rent to HB claimants.

Of course there are shitty landlords out there who are willing to exploit people, but then there are shitty tenants as well who couldn't care less about stealing from someone else.

I agree landlords need more protection from unscrupulous tenants who are actually thieves and vandals, because it is not right that tenants can get away with not paying for a service they receive so easily.

OP, do you also think it's ok for people to steal from shops, or to steal cars that are parked on the road?

"tenants in these circumstances don't necessarily keep good care of properties, but that's the choice you as a landlord make when you choose to enter the business"

This is bollocks, there is no good reason to not look after the place you are renting and I say that as a tenant.

It isn't ok to steal from shops, but it's certainly part of their business plan. Shops reckon on a certain percentage of theft, if they didnt, they'd lose money.

tenants in these circumstances don't necessarily keep good care of properties, but that's the choice you as a landlord make

No that's a choice tenants make. They deserve prison too. Then more ll's wouldn't turn away poorer tenants.

The insurance companies charge a lot more if you're letting to a HB tenant. Some companies aren't happy to provide insurance at all.

We viewed some ex HB rentals with a view to buy as a family home. They were only four year old buildings, but were pretty wrecked and in need of renovation after the tenants had moved out

I think there should be a ban on lls refusing to let to hb claimants - it's blatant discrimination imo. If all rental properties were available for anyone to let there would be less opportunity for the scummy lls to get away with letting out unmaintained damp places because tenants would have more options available. Atm there are so few properties available for people receiving hb that they have to take whatever they can get and the unscrupulous lls know it.

I was one of those "HB Folk" up until last year. I had no option as a single mum to two disabled children.

My home is immaculate and well maintained by myself as is my garden. I spend hours in the summer outside making sure my garden looks great.

I really resent some of the opinions on here about us "HB folk" How judgmental and narrow minded.

Aga Of course tenants need to be protected from the kind of landlords that don't maintain their properties and the appliances therein. As you say, people can die because of faulty boilers etc.
But it works both ways. The fact of the matter is, some tenants are horrendous, even if the home they live in is well maintained and their landlord is decent and fair. They have little or no respect for the house that they live in simply because it belongs to someone else. Do you think it's okay for a tenant to wreck a house and not have to pay for the damage they cause just because it's 'only' a financial loss for the landlord?

Landlords deserve to be protected from bad tenants.

I'm a LL. Because I could not sell my house. I don't make a profit, the rent covers expenses (well about £40 left over). I keep it well maintained.

SOME LL are terrible, and there are plenty of them.

But many of us are lovely!

@Gandalfsbeard

In reality there are ways to protect LLs from tenants. But as a tenant you can't be protected by bad landlords though.

Me and DH had our fair share of bad landlords and all of them happily ignored that the house was a lot better at the end of the tenancy than at the start (I'm a maniac for housecleaning, bordering on OCD).

If you are interested to know we even got a landlord complaining because the grass was two inches at the end and not one inch as it was one year before.... To be honest some landlords are so greedy that they would do anything to keep their deposits and ask for even more money.

I don't think many landlords can actually recognise a bad tenant from a good tenant.

Thank God we are not on HB and we could buy a decent place, getting rid of the landlords :)

No shop would reckon on 100% of its stock being stolen for months at a time, plus extra for damages.

Trying to justify this type of theft is just plain scummy.

And it's people that treat landlords like that that make rents rise for everyone else, and who make perfectly good HB claiming tenants a statistically bad bet.

How can you protect LL from bad tenants? It's true that private tenants have to pay a deposit and can be charged for damage/cleaning up, but what about HB tenants?

anywhere - can you tell us the ways to protect LLs from tenants please. apart from the deposit i've not found any yet (and the deposit wouldn't cover nearly any damage or rent arrears from a bad tenant).

agree that its almost impossible to tell a good or bad tenant. we've had good ones with average references and not ideal situations, and lovely looking ones that are awful.

My heart sinks whenever the lettings agency phone because we expect to hear that the places have been wrecked. One set of tenants made a mess, but their deposit covered the cleaning up. They were also in arrears, but the lettings people eventually got the money out of them.

Tenants should realise that a great many LL are relying on rental income to pay the mortgage and/or provide money for the LL's food, bills and insurance. Most LLs aren't evil or rich, just ordinary people trying to get by.

It's a real shame that honest HB people can't get private lets. The bad tenants have spoilt it for everyone.

I think the majority of ll maintain their properties as they are their assets and to fall into disrepair would mean their assets decreasing in value. It's like everywhere and everyone ~ you will always get good and bad and it's usually the really bad you hear about......,

Anywhere I just know that my brother wasn't protected from his awful tenant who wrecked his house and didn't give a fig. Could he get the money from her to pay for the damage she caused? Could he hell! (And the damage was terrible, inc. dog muck on carpets, radiators ripped off walls, holes in doors...I could go on).

I know some landlords can be horrid and greedy, but sometimes a landlord should rightly keep the deposit from a terrible tenant.

We own a property which we rent out and luckily our tenants are lovely. But we're good landlords. I couldn't let our tenants live without heating, or with damp on the walls, or crappy carpets or even a leaky tap, because I actually care and want to be a good landlord.

We also currently live in a rented property in the area we've moved to while we find something we want to buy. So I know what it's like from the other side. Like you, our house is already better than it was when we moved in, we've done lots of work (including carpeting whole house at our expense, which we won't be asking the landlord to reimburse us for because we're nice like that )

Glad you've found a nice place to buy