To take daughter home from soft play after 3rd hitting incident?

[Slightlyneuroricnat]

She is 3 1/2 and today at a soft play area hit another girl repeatedly as soon as we arrived and then jumped on top of her :(
The girls father picked my daughter up off of his and said quite loudly " no "
My daughter ran away but then looked back at shouted at the man for being horrible.
Obviously I apologised, put her in time out and made her apologise to the child but within 5 minutes she had hit another child in the face and then proceeded to push her younger sister over.
So we went home with her screaming and my mother in law telling me I was completely over reacting as she's only little.
She can be a lovely kind child but probably once a fortnight will have a day that there's just no talking to her and her behaviour is aggressive, even at home this morning she was kicking her toys around even when I began removing them.
Worried as she is starting nursery in April and I don't know what they will do if she behaves like this.

My DS2 (11) is really physical. Boundless energy. But no longer aggressive thank God. He started to calm down at school. He's also really physically affectionate, too.

I used to worry about him becoming a thug too. But he's lovely. Just bear with it. And give her lots of running around time (but maybe not in soft play)

The other thing I'd advise:

Firm, deep voice, clear boundaries = good
Worried, high voice, too loud = possibly giving too much negative attention for poor behaviour, plus it draws other's attention to the "naughty kid"

Sorry to hear about what happened Slightly. It sounds as though you may be noticing a pattern to the behaviour though...ie. kicking toys around in the morning, aggressive behaviour at soft play in the afternoon. I'm wondering whether there are 'warning signs' to the behaviour which means you could change your plans if she is having a bad day?

Keep a diary if you can. See if there are any patterns to the behaviour...anything that regularly happens before incidents? Could be anything...a particular change in routine, something really minor which upsets the applecart? Might happen just before or even earlier that day. Compare the good days to the not-so-good days and see what might be different.

The fearlessness and energy you describe indicates that maybe she would benefit from some kind of sport activity...gymnastics maybe? Martial arts as she gets older? Something that will channel the energy while also requiring discipline??

Very good luck to you!

Mud city,
Very good idea and will do that starting tomorrow.
Honestly, some days are brilliant and others not at all.
Some days it's my 2 1/2 year old I'm following around and others it's my eldest and it's very tiring.
She is born in november to the poster who asks so will do a year and a half in school nursery and start reception next September.
She also started gymnastics last month which she loves as she had literally no fear of anything really so is happy to try most things.
I wish that just didn't include hitting a 10 year old :(

What MudCity said but also keep a food diary incase it's food related. I used to be an absolute horror if I'd had a certain food additive (E102) which is found in surprising places. Even as an adult I have genuine uncontrollable anger if I have it (e.g. in the capsule colouring of my omeprazol when pregnant). It could be routine related or diet related or even something else but worth ruling stuff out to help both of you cope better.

Yes another thread has the same suggestions although not sure hat gas additives in it, probably most things so will really need to check everything

Really feel for you Slightly. I knew someone whose son did the same as your daughter. It turned out that the incidents happened the day after his mum had an evening class and had not put him to bed. For whatever reason, this had made him feel insecure and triggered some really difficult behaviours the following day.

The diary will help. At times you may find it pointless but keep going with it as it will help shed light on patterns and triggers. With that knowledge you can really take charge of it.

Sounds like DD will be a great gymnast! And if that doesn't excite her enough, then maybe, in the future, she will be suited to one of those Winter Olympic sports....you know the really terrifying ones!

You did the right thing by the way by stopping the activity there and then. One thing though, if MIL was with you at the time, it really won't help DD if you are saying one thing and your MIL is saying another! That wasn't helpful was it?!

In the meantime, do make sure you praise, praise, praise 'good' behaviour. I only say this because I know I am really bad at acknowledging good behaviour but quick to respond to bad behaviour. That's human though isn't it? Child can be playing quietly and everyone ignores them. As soon as the hitting and yelling starts though, child gets full attention!

Good luck.

Mud city,
Thanks for your reply.
It really wasn't helpful at all, mother in law was crying as we said goodbye to her as she felt so sorry for DD.
I understand her once a week day out with the kids is important to her and she enjoys it but I did say sorry at the time, but I can't let her be confused and take her home if she behaves like it of I'm out on my own or with friends but not if my mother in law is there.

I explained to her last night that she starts nursery in 7 weeks time and I am concerned this behaviour will happen there and as she doesn't really seem to care when I / random people's parents tell her off, I'm worried that they won't tolerate it as discipline doesn't seem to have much effect and I don't know what they'll do if they try and fail.
She said I'm completely over reacting and over thinking things, all kids go through this and will grow out of it.
I take what she says as a pinch of salt as whilst this may be true for my husband who is quite a quiet character anyway his younger brother was constantly in trouble at primary and secondary school and although she says it's his ADHD which of course could be true as I have no experience with it, I'm pretty sure her way of dealing with bad behaviour probably wasnt very helpful either.
We don't have any change in routine I'm here as is their dad every evening at bedtime, bedtime varies if youngest has a nap which can mean the eldest won't go to bed either so could possibly be over tired the following day but will be doing the diary :)

OP you were totally right, thank you for being arsed to pull your DD up on her behaviour. Other parents and children will appreciate this, and so will your DD, because if she doesn't learn to behave they won't want to play with her and she will miss out.

MIL was being wet. DD won't magically grow out of this, she needs to be taught that actions have consequences and treats don't happen unless she is going to be nice.

MIL is overstepping the mark. All you did was take her home. I think DH should have a chat with her about how crying isn't appropriate, how ridiculous. You can love your GC but hitting other children has to be taken seriously...

My DNeph was like that at that age. He soon grew out of it and is a charming young man. SIL would have done exactly the same, as would any responsible parent.
You did exactly the right thing. Your MIL is not the one who has to deal day in, day out. Condoning the behaviour would have taught DD nothing.
It's just a phase, DD will be fine.

Again Thankyou for your responses.
I would have been mortified if it was the other way around and happening to one of mine and the parent didn't remove them after the third time so I really wasn't about to carry on letting her think she could still play after her behaviour.
I have said the same to my husband, that he needs to speak to her about her constant undermining me which she does fairly frequently and usually when I tell one of them off for doing something, usually it's my youngest that won't share a toy etc and she will step in with the " she's only 2 " comment.
On the whole my eldest is a great kids, just full of energy and quite fearless and not intimidated by anyone, which I'm sure has its positives, we just need to work on her knowing if she does behave like that then she will be taken straight home.
She does seem quite a frustrated child at times, if she can't do something the first time she will lash out, at gymnastics she pushed over a child as she fell from the beam.
The child wasn't even near her, she just seemed really angry and lashed out at whoever was closest.
Needless to say the gymnastic teacher wasn't amused and que a majorly embarrassed mother - me.
I am going to try and alter what she eats, maybe too much sugar that I'm not even realising such as the kiddie yogurts / biscuits etc is causing her I be even more hyperactive than she would be without them.

You've got a good handle on it, you'll figure it out. Children need firm boundaries to be confident.

You did exactly the right thing.

Another one who thinks that you have done exactly the right thing here. It saves many long battles in future if they know that some behaviours are going to lead to a prompt 'goodbye and off we go'.

I was going to suggest that your dd might be hitting because she was excited. DS2 did that - the more he loved someone or something, the more likely it was that he would behave aggressively. He would rush up to his bf whom he was always very very excited to see and gouge chunks out of his cheeks, or wallop him, in sheer joy. His bf's mother was very very lovely and helped us deal with this phase, bless her, but it was at about this age.

(I read on another thread this morning, that the part of our brain in which we feel deep love is also the part of the brain that produces aggression, which makes sense.)

Did your dd know she was going to have an exciting day when she was kicking her toys around?

You absolutely did the right thing. I had to do the same on one occasion, when my DC were a similar age- it was a day trip out with friends that had been planned for weeks. However DC behaviour was so awful there was no point. I have to say, it was a turning point in behaviour for us- they have never done it since so it obviously worked!

Longtallsally,
Yes she was aware we were off to see nanny for the day when she was kicking the toys however she does this pretty frequently at all different points in the day, will just throw / kick things and see no wrong when I tell her off over and over again.
But until now I've never taken her home as its never been this bad bit if this is what I have to do then so be it as I'm not accepting the behavious and certainly not doing to send her into nursery whilst she's in full swing of it.
I have 7 weeks to work bloody hard to eliminate as much of it as I can

A good nursery will help though, don't sweat it. My dd has thrown some awful behaviour at nursery and they've helped her get through it all - it's not all on you, they will reinforce good behaviours, hopefully she'll have fun there and it'll be a big positive in her life.

Just keep removing her from.a.nice day out, but when u get home don't give her treats or the TV..

At home remove toys and let her earn them back..

3 is not young, if there is no SEN there then she should be able to understand what is right and what is wrong

DS is the same age and does this too - it's like, once he's off on one, time out or whatever doesn't stop him. It does seem to be connected with being overexcited/overtired.

He does it at nursery too and they put him in time out for one minute, which does precisely nothing.

The only thing that helps is a serious talk before he goes in about what the consequences of bad behaviour will be, and enacting those consequences right away. (Or when we get home, in the case of nursery!)

Good idea about the diary, mudcity, there must be something that triggers this. SOmetimes he just gets this look in his eyes, and can tell it's going to be a bad day. Sigh.

Boulevard,
That's exactly what I was trying to say but you've worded it far better.
Some days I also can just tell, her behaviour is all over the place at times.
I am drastically cutting down the sugar / additives from today though to see if it has any effect as my aunt who had 2 boys of a similar age is convinced my this and figure it can't do any harm.
I will just be so embarrassed if she does this at nursey, she has been known to hit out at the adults correcting her also if they tell her off and I'm pretty sure a teacher isn't going to stand for it :(
In fact, I have no idea what they will do if she does it.

You did just the right thing. I'd have thanked you if my dd had been the one your dd was hitting! Well done.

She may behave differently at nursery; am sure the staff will keep an eye on her.

The nursery will have seen it all. I'm sure my dd has learned a lot of her tactics for getting what she wants/bad behaviour from watching other dc. She's just started spitting as her friend at nursery is doing it!

You are right Slightly, consistency is the key here. If one adult says no and the other is getting all emotional and makes excuses, you will have a confused child. MIL needs to play by your rules. Firm, clear boundaries and all. And yes, following through the consequences, if you say you will be going home if she has a wobbly, then you go...no holds barred, no second or third chances. You did the right thing.

I totally understand your worries about nursery. If I were you, I would go and speak to them before she starts...tell them about the behaviour you have experienced and together, you can devise a joint plan right from the start. Star charts, whatever. Then you and the nursery can be using the same strategies so your DD gets a totally consistent message. I think it is going to be important for the nursery to be prepared so they can be proactive rather than reactive. They can keep a diary too.

What you say about your daughter's frustration /anger is interesting...she seems to get frustrated with herself doesn't she? Maybe play therapy could be helpful here? The nursery may be able to point you in the direction of a qualified play therapist. Might help get to the heart of the issue and give her a safe environment to express her feelings.

There will be a pattern to the behaviour, I feel sure of it. Just remember to praise your DD every time she reacts in a positive / neutral way, otherwise there is always a risk that we inadvertently reinforce bad behaviour by giving it loads of attention.

Remove from activity, put in car, silence all the way home, time out on arrival at home. And certainly no wailing from mother-in-law!!

Thankyou for your advice,
Certainly will be mentioning it as we have a home visit due in a couple of weeks.
It's a Shame as she can go weeks without an outburst and then behave like it all day for a few in a row!
She is very frustrated with herself if she doesn't succeed first time?
No idea why as we've always made sure she gets lots of praise and nothing ever negative even if she doesn't succeed so I feel this is just get personality, she's pretty driven and likes to gets things right.
Have never heard of play therapy but will look into that too