To Think Buying Your Unborn Baby A Golliwog

[NurseyWursey]

and posting the photo on facebook, is in bad taste?

It just seems a bit to me.

[fortyplus]

I'm sure the people who buy golliwogs are the same ones who buy those amusing babygros with rude slogans on them - look at me I'm so witty

[fortyplus]

I'm not offended by golliwogs myself because i can't really understand the feelings that their history generates - but because I'm fairly kind and compassionate I would never buy one out of respect for the feelings of others. So those who think 'fuck you - if I want a golliwog I'll have one' - actually you're just not very nice. Why not buy a t shirt saying 'Fuck off nigger' and see how many people you can offend with that? It amounts to about the same thing.

[MistressDeeCee]

Elletorro - nah, just try to have the courage of your own convictions and put the golliwog on display. Then when your 'Afro Caribbean' mates come round you can talk to them earnestly about 'not being able to cut out its history'. Im sure theyll give you an appropriate answer to that one and tell you exactly where to put it

Looking at this thread I am heartened to see that stupid people who find any excuse to be racist are outnumbered by people with common sense and decency. Some say all this fuss about a doll...the self-same idiots who are banging on about at their grown age about their right to keep a racist doll. Must be really important to them. Maybe they sing to it at night

[aurynne]

I think it's actually just the opposite... it's so non-important to them that they find it really funny that some other people get so hyped-up about it, and believe that being a racist is shown by actions and intentions, not by refusing to own something that may or may not be deemed racist by others.

Note: I don't own a golliwog doll.

[Wuxiapian]

YANBU.

Of all the choices out there, why pick a golliwog?!

[aurynne]

Because they like it? Because, like many posters in this thread, they have fond memories of childhood with this toy? Because it was given as a gift to them? Because their child has seen one and asked for it? I can think of many reasons in addition to "because that person is a racist". In fact, I can think of far fewer reasons why a racist person would be interested in owning a black doll (unless they want to use it as a voodoo doll).

In any case, what makes you assume that a person owning one owes you an explanation or has to make a declaration of non-racist intent in order to own one?

[MistressDeeCee]

No way does ANYONE here have a golliwog because of fond childhood memories. So you're white British, and your fondest memories are of a racist doll caricature of a black person?! oh please...the foolishness is almost frightening

aurynne you're right, nobody is owed an explanation. However since this is Mumsnet and not your own front room then people who aren't into the closet racism are going to give their opinion, aren't they? Who told you anyone wanted an explanation, anyway?

I personally take the crappy explanations with a pinch of salt/

White British...and your fondest childhood memories are brought back to you by a golliwog...can't quite get over that one. Not good old fish n chips..or even a Barbie doll...or Sindy doll...nope - a golliwog. OK then

To the others who 'wonder why people think its funny to have a golliwog', or 'find it odd that people think its racist'

I have a suggestion for you cowards.

Take the golliwog off the shelf. Give it to your DC. Get them to take it to school and talk about their favourite toy. I recall at school there'd be days we could come in and do that..never saw any child bring in a golliwog though. Now...if, as you claim, you see nothing wrong and are HAPPY to own a golliwog then you won't mind doing that, will you? You won't mind the outside world seeing what you're into.

If, of course you WOULDN'T do that and hide behind 'why should I' reasons then, it is what it is...you are a racist...a cowardly closet one at that, because you know you're off-key but you don't want anybody out there to know that.

[tethersend]

"In any case, what makes you assume that a person owning one owes you an explanation or has to make a declaration of non-racist intent in order to own one?"

A person owning one does not have to justify it to anyone.

However, they will be thought of as naive or racist. They have to be ok with that, I would have thought. Many people are. Good for them.

[slithytove]

Golliwogs were not created to be racist. It started out as a friendly children's character, not trademarked so the name came to represent all black minstrel rag dolls. It was stereotypical in its origins, but not racist. The minstrel shows however were racist and this is where the usage of golliwog and wog became a term for black people, which of course when used by racists, it becomes a racist term, turning the doll itself into a symbol of racism.

It is what they came to represent which is offensive rather than the creation of the doll itself. But why would someone want a representation of hatred and slavery sat on their bookshelf?

If you have one through sentiment as I imagine older people might (I know my mum has one, it's packed away with her pinky and perky puppets), stick it in the loft and use it's discovery as a learning experience one day?

[slithytove]

I would not assume that anyone who has ever bought one is a racist, nor that anyone who still owns one is a racist.

I would question anyone's intelligence and then common sense if they proudly displayed one today while ignoring all the history.

[Lazyjaney]

"However, they will be thought of as naive or racist. They have to be ok with that, I would have thought. Many people are. Good for them"

The days of the golliwog being a symbol of arch racism that right-on people can use to show they are more-PC-than-thou are over, it's going back to being just a toy again.

The times they are a changing again, but some of you are stuck in the 70's and 80's.

[Treaclepot]

Aurynne - 'because they like it' so basically fuck the feelings of everyone else. There is a parent at our school who is about as educated as Ralph, and she had one in her window. She has had a couple of rants about PC bollocks.

Everyone thought she was just a bit thick, and having known her for a few years now I would agree but also say completely lacking in empathy. She doesn't care that some of her neighbours find it upsetting.

But she gets easily offended at everything else, her incredibly overweight children were called fat by a five year old, and she got on very upset saying he had no manners. But can't equate this with upsetting her neighbours

[Treaclepot]

Lazyjane maybe its going back to being a toy again for those so ignorant they never understood the offence in the first place.

[Lazyjaney]

^^
Sales are rising again, as with Noddy it's a trope that's had it's day.

[tethersend]

at golliwogs being MODERN

[peggyundercrackers]

as usual lots of playground insults come out because you have a different view from someone. Seriously these insults are the kind of things that bullies come out with when they dont get their own way, they try and belittle people too.

[pertempsnooo]

And have we mentioned the context golliwogs have in their earlier appearances in Noddy. Living in the dark dark wood, scaring people? Very innocent I'm sure.

[SetPhasersTaeMalkie]

This thread has really shocked me.
I have not seen a gollywog since I was a child. I'm glad of that. Surely no person with a shred of decency would want to be associated with them? Buying one and worse still displaying it is like getting a huge sign and declaring your pride in your ignorance.

[aurynne]

I know people who have bought the book "Mein Kampf", by Adolf Hitler, and have it in their bookshelf. Would I assume that they are nazi apologists just by that fact? No, I don't assume anything, as there are many reasons they may want to read that book without sharing the ideas in it; in fact, there are many people who choose to read books written by people of different ideologies, or even by fascists, in order to gather a broader understanding of the minds of those who perform atrocious acts. Or he/she might have that book because it belonged to a nazi soldier who died in WWII and his grandfather picked it up and kept it. or he may just be curious as to what Hitler had to say. I would not expect that person to have to hide the book or dissolve into explanations of why he/she is not a nazi in front of every stranger. If I was curious to know, I would ask politely. I definitely would not be up in arms telling him that, if he has that book, he has to be prepared for people to assume he is a nazi. I tend to think that people in general have to be prepared not to assume, and not to be offended at things that weren't intended to be offensive. I also tend to expect good in people, unless they show otherwise.

If a person I knew was known to be dismissive or aggressive towards black people, if he or she made offensive remarks, and on top of that, displayed a golliwog on his/her window for everyone to see, then I may suspect that person might be racist (but in this case, I wouldn't have needed the golliwog to reach that conclusion). If a random person who I have no reason to believe is racist, decides to buy a golliwog, then I can't imagine myself thinking: "Gosh, he/she must be a racist. I will not speak to him/her ever again!".

Once again, this is the way I am, and do not expect anyone else to be like me. However, I am quite convinced that I am a much happier person, less stressed, and much more confident in my own self than most of the people posting in this thread showing extreme offence towards someone owning a golliwog. Oh, and somehow I am also convinced I am much less racist, perhaps by my experience that people who don't have prejudices do not feel the constant need to shout and rant against them. People who always see the straw in everyone else's eye are usually blissfully unaware of the rafter in their own.

[daisychain01]

I hated the thread recently which mentioned the "N" word in the title. I posted a polite comment asking "did you have to spell out the name in full?" Not in a bosom-hoiking way, but I was amazed it was in the title. It wound me up seeing it in my list. Maybe that's a good thing because it showed me just how abhorrent I found it.

99% of people told me I was wrong to be offended. It was an important part of the OPs story. I should not expect it to be sanitised. I respected their opinions, I did not argue back.

OK I was in the minority, but I find it a most ugly, aggressive, yes offensive word. I am white and female. I am proud of caring about black people, I work with every ethnic origin of people and likewise have ethnic friends. They are all people, I am colour blind. Thats my personal opinion. I wont have anything to do with gollies because in our enlightened age, they have loaded meaning. My grandparents said things that by todays standards would have been classed racist, but that was then, this is now.

It is naive in the extreme to deny that gollies are benign little playthings.

[daisychain01]

It is naive in the extreme to suggest that gollies are benign little playthings.

[aurynne]

"I am white and female. I am proud of caring about black people, I work with every ethnic origin of people and likewise have ethnic friends."

You may or may not be racist, but you surely are patronising and preposterous.

I actually snorted at "I have ethnic friends".

[Perfectlypurple]

As a child I really wanted one but we never used enough jam to get one :(

As a teen I thought it was ridiculous to say they were racist after all it was only a black doll. I had a black plastic doll as a child.

Then as I got older and more worldly wise I reaslised/found out that the golliwog was a caricature and a stereotype and could see why it was racist.

I won't apologise for wanting one as a child - I was a child after all. I won't apologise for thinking it was ridiculous to call them racist as a teen - as a teen you just see the world from your point of view. But I would be ashamed if had got to adulthood without knowing/accepting why the golliwog is offensive.

You don't have to be black to be offended by racism.

[daisychain01]

aurynne

Snort away to your hearts content

[tethersend]

Aurryne, that's all well and good- but would you, or anyone else, try and argue that Mein Kampf is not racist?

The golliwog is racist.

History here

Owners of golliwog a may not be- they may simply be naive of its origins and semiotics- but if they continue to insist that the golliwog is not racist, the they will be thought of as racist by a great many people.