To think that if you want to claim benefits your children should have to attend school

[foreverondiet]

I have just come across a number of people who have left an extreme religious cult / sect (not really relevant what religion).

What shocked me was that the person I spoke to has had to as an adult learn english, and he told me that he was brought up as one of 11 children in a household where neither parent worked (and lived of benefits).

Ok so far, but my problem is that they denied their children a secular education - basically private but legal religious schools for primary (with bare minimum allowed for secular education), and illegal schools for secondary, with basically no secular education at all - inspectors told either that the children where being home schooled or that they were at school abroad. Some children in the sect as very low performing private (but legal) schools just do the absolute secular education they can get away with.

He is working as a labourer (and not claiming any benefits - he has left the sect), but ideally he would like to get some GCSEs / A levels / college - so to improve earnings potential. I felt a bit sad for him that he had endured this sort of abuse - he told me its still continuing - 9 of his siblings have stayed in the sect and doing the same with their children. If anyone works its part time in low paid work due to lack skills. He thought that one of the reasons for the lack of education and the lack of english was to make it so hard to leave.

AIBU to feel very angry about this? Obviously don't think these people should lose benefits but surely ridiculous they can claim benefits including housing benefits whilst choosing to send their children to private (and often illegal) schools.

"I think what you are touching on here is sad, I am certain many parents home school for very good reasons and claim benefits because they have to. For example if a child struggles in school due to a phobia etc."

This ^^

A lot of HEed children have Autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia, Downs etc and just don't get a state education their parents consider adequate, nevermind 'good'.

A lot of children with SN also get left without school places for extended periods.

I thought that once your children reached a certain age, you were compelled to seek work? I do not understand how people that are HEing can be in receipt of benefits such as JSA, child tax credits etc.

Some might be in receipt of Carer's Allowance, some might run micro-businesses and get a range of top-ups, some might be seeking evening an weekend work and specify that on a JSA claim.

I have known a lot of HEers. Most have a working spouse or partner anyway.

I think the example in the OP is unusual.

Because you are only compelled to seek work for 35 hours each week, that leaves a lot of hours to educate.

Lots of HE families either have a high earner in the household so no benefits or have a disabled household member so fit educating around caring responsibilities any benefits involved in those situations would be disability/caring related ones so not subject to work seeking requirements.

Quite a lot do not HE fully from 5-19 it may be a year here and there or only when the children need it,many HE children may ask to be returned to the school system after a year or so or a couple of years, some families only intend on HE to avoid one type of school (either primary or secondary) or it may just be the schools they have access to are shocking so the HE lasts until they move, many families may share the education so both parents work part time to provide just over what a full time wage would be.

IME HE is seen as more of a middle class comfortable hippy thing than a struggling poor family thing,purely because being reliant on benefits does make HE harder. I I certainly know far more HE families from a comfortable or wealthy background than I do from a lower income or poor background

And don't forget the education does to have to be taking place at a prescribed time.

In some circumstances structured learning (or even unstructured) all day at the week ends and a couple of evening s during the week would be more than enough to be considered to be full time and would actually be more hours than a child at full time school would be getting

sorry

Does not

I'm in receipt of carers allowance.

Having moved house the new LA are taking a few terms to consider a special school placement for DS. In the old one he spent extended periods out of school while that LA faffed around too. Even when he had a school place I couldn't work as had to be ready to drop everything at a moments notice in response to the dreaded school phonecall and go and collect him at any time in the school day.

So to be fair home edding makes no difference to my availability to work except that I can plan things well enough now to be able to retrain so I'll be able to work from home in due course. Having a disabled kid means returning to my old career just isn't gonna happen no matter how much I and the daily fail judgey pants brigade would wish it so. It's a lot harder paying for DS's therapies etc on benefits than it was was I was a 40% tax payer.

The sad thing is that I've had way to much support from other Mums in my situation & various charities, to be under the illusion any longer that DS's is an isolated case. The state is failing to provide an adequate education for SN kids on a depressingly regular basis, and with the academies and the new EHCP's the situation is getting worse not better.

Bochead.

Do you have support from a education advocacy group that specialises in children who need a specialist placement?

(That's if you want your dc to have one of course)

Oh and if anybody but anybody in RL gives your grief about your benefits tell them from me to fuck the fuck off to the far side of fuck.

You and other claimants like you save the gov a damn fortune,I know this because I know how much I have to pay for carers whilst I work and how much respite centres and units cost.

"The sad thing is that I've had way to much support from other Mums in my situation & various charities, to be under the illusion any longer that DS's is an isolated case. The state is failing to provide an adequate education for SN kids on a depressingly regular basis, and with the academies and the new EHCP's the situation is getting worse not better."

Sadly Bochead we had a similar experience and know many others who have. LAs are regularly breaking laws and waiting for parents to challenge through tribunal, ombudsman or similar. In the meantime they save £££££

A lot of parents never challenge school and LEA shenanigans at all, of course. Many more £££££ saved. System absolutely reeks.

And what Needsasock said. Definitely.

The problem with those who hold the purse strings getting to decide who gets the funding for a place being the exact same people who get to decide the level of a child's needs,is that it leads to massive massive under estimation of needs.

They count on people who don't know the rules,they rely on people thinking they are in authority so lets not challenge them, they shut so many of the specialist units inside mainstream schools to save money knowing that most parents do not have the resources or knowledge to get as far as forcing them to fund a placement in a none mainstream setting.

One of my kids goes to one of the best (for his disability) specialist schools in the country it costs about twice as much as Eton does, he's not getting some super duper upper class education he's getting nothing more than exactly what he needs to be able to access any education at all. the LA's are just not keen on funding it when they can get away with not doing so. A few pupils at his school were the subject of a very shitty DM article full of shock horror that they are being funded by the LA accompanied by the obligatory nasty shitty comments about these children should be put down blah blah blah that always get spouted.

Made me feel sick to be the same species as the people who come out with crap like that.

(Sorry for the only very vaguely relevant rant,I lost control of myself for a little bit)

"The problem with those who hold the purse strings getting to decide who gets the funding for a place being the exact same people who get to decide the level of a child's needs,is that it leads to massive massive under estimation of needs."

Absolutely. That is the nub of it.

Ridiculously designed system.

DS has a case worker blah, blah, blah.

Unless you personally have a child who falls thru the cracks like mine does, you'd have no cause to suspect the system could be so hypocritically crap; especially given all the media hoo hah about school attendance recently. .

Until schools, LA's are actually held to account, and the law as applies to their duties actually implemented nothing will change anytime soon, at least for this generation. Some areas now don't have a single non-academy status mainstream secondary school. We all know there is a woeful lack of special school places. Gove knows this too.

1 in 6 school leavers without functional literacy and numeracy skills must have tremendous economic cost to the UK in terms of youth offending costs, long term welfare payments, adult mental health services etc Shame our politicians don't look further than the next soundbite, as our Global competitors do.

Sorry that you had to read the DM shite too. I think I remember that article. And the comments. Some humans aren't worthy of the name.

I hope you get it sorted out Boc. Keep plugging away.

My DS was left without secondary education for five terms in the end. Eventually we crawled through the system and got the placement he needed. It's not fast but we got there. I hope you get a good ending too.

Oh dear we seem to have accidentally hijacked. Sorry OP!

What you are describing here is abusive behaviours designed to keep children from straying or having the skills to question what they are being told.

^^

This

And IMHO that is what goes on to a greater or lesser extent in all faith schools

Lots of people believe it happens in all schools

Some people who H.ed receive tax credits due to low income and don't apply for out of work benefits as they don't want to work.
There is a lot of variety in how people manage H.ed, just the same as families who use schools.
There are also many differing reasons people choose H.ed, and various ways of establishing how they are going to do it.